Korg Forums Forum Index Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

audio interface - ASIO?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jeebustrain
Platinum Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1283
Location: In a Roger Dean painting

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:42 pm    Post subject: audio interface - ASIO? Reply with quote

OK - so some of you already know of my attempts to get full functionality of the audio interface in Linux. My ultimate goal was to use the audio interface as an output from some softsynths from my netbook tablet. Because that was not going as well as I would have hoped (still working though), I decided to take a different route. I built a parallel Windows XP install on the same machine and have been doing some tests that way.

The first thing I came across is that there is no native working ASIO driver for the Kronos. I read some posts here where some people were using the MME/DX audio driver. That works great for basic playback/recording, but the latency is awful (almost 50ms) for playing softsynths. BTW, I've been using Ableton Live as my VST Host.

So my next step was to install ASIO4ALL. I configured it to use the Kronos, disabled the input (since I don't need it), and began fiddling with buffer settings (overall size, offset) and driver error compensation (an Ableton live setting). In any case, I found that even the slimmest of softsynths would spike the cpu and cause all kinds of popping and distortion. When I changed to the netbook built-in card (using ASIO4ALL), all of the distortion problems went away.

Now, I have another USB Audio interface (M-Audio Fast Track Pro) I can use - I've thought about using SPDIF to make a direct digital connection into the Kronos (I still want the Kronos to be the master mixer for all sound). That works perfectly fine and I can run any soft synth I want on this lowly little Atom netbook, even ones that use a lot of CPU.

Has anyone using a Windows PC managed to make this actually work? I've been using softsynths and have been performing with a computer based setup for almost 8 years now, so I'd like to say I have a bit of experience in this whole thing. But I'm a bit perplexed by this "audio interface" that was included. The only thing I can even see any use for it at this point is to just record a mixdown from the Kronos into a stereo track on a PC.
_________________
::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::

My Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jimknopf
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3354

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made some efforts in Windows7: same story.

Frankly, at least with the present driver, I fail to see ANY possible serious use of the Kronos audio interface. And that will hardly change as long as it can't provide real Asio with tolerable latency values.

It is all the more essential that the coming plugin works well with any good Asio soundcard on Windows systems.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Korg Prologue 16 - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Cubase 10 Pro + Groove Agent 5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4115
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that the KRONOS is USB class-compliant for audio. This means that there are no native Korg audio drivers per se; instead, it's using the standard Microsoft drivers.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jeebustrain
Platinum Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1283
Location: In a Roger Dean painting

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
I made some efforts in Windows7: same story.

Frankly, at least with the present driver, I fail to see ANY possible serious use of the Kronos audio interface. And that will hardly change as long as it can't provide real Asio with tolerable latency values.

It is all the more essential that the coming plugin works well with any good Asio soundcard on Windows systems.


yea - that's what I'm leaning towards right now - It actually makes my linux setup much easier too - I don't have to keep chasing getting the Kronos output working properly. I'll just have to shove my M-Audio interface into my portable rack and use a coax/toslink converter to get the audio into the Kronos. It's more cables to manage, but I'm ok with that.
_________________
::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::

My Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jimknopf
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3354

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, what you say could mean two different things
- that Korg wants to rely on that and stay with it
- or that Korg will write their own driver for the Kronos (I guess embedded) sound card.

I know of no musicians making any use of MME/DirectX drivers, since ages: such drivers may work for some kind of internal multimedia use, but don't remotely deliver latencies required for recording. The newer MS WDM drivers are useable sometimes, but Asio is the only common and reliable Windows standard for recording. Even Cakewalk, who tried to get by with their own DirectX driver concept a long time ago, offer Asio connection to their DAW since years now.

I see no chance for Korg getting around this fact IF they want to offer the Kronos soundcard for recording. And the plugin also will only be useful with full Asio support for connection to common soundcards.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Korg Prologue 16 - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Cubase 10 Pro + Groove Agent 5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jeebustrain
Platinum Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1283
Location: In a Roger Dean painting

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:
Note that the KRONOS is USB class-compliant for audio. This means that there are no native Korg audio drivers per se; instead, it's using the standard Microsoft drivers.


Thanks for the clarification, Dan. It's kind of confusing though - true class compliancy would imply that it's OS agnostic, as long as the OS supports class complaint USB Audio (which I know that the newer linux kernels do). I can get the input from the Kronos to work, but an output interface isn't even recognized.


That being said - what is the primary goal of the audio interface as a feature - is it just to capture a stereo mix of the Kronos into a PC (and vice-versa)? Or like Jim eluded to, is this going to be ultimately integrated into some feature of the plugin? Maybe I should just sit tight and run with what I have for now.
_________________
::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::

My Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4115
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimknopf wrote:
Dan, what you say could mean two different things
- that Korg wants to rely on that and stay with it
- or that Korg will write their own driver for the Kronos (I guess embedded) sound card.


Neither of these, actually; I meant exactly what I wrote, no more and no less. I just wanted to correct what I saw as some confusion brewing about how the KRONOS USB audio worked.

jimknopf wrote:
I know of no musicians making any use of MME/DirectX drivers


The KRONOS audio is USB class compliant. That's not MME, DirectX, WDM, etc. Instead, it's whatever the operating system (Windows in your case) decides that it is; the OS provides the driver(s). Windows by default makes USB audio devices available as MME and WDM; ASIO4All makes them available as ASIO.

This part of the system is somewhat outside my responsibilities, and personally I use Mac OS X, so I don't know that much about audio on Windows. I'm concerned that people are reporting difficulties, and I'm looking into ways to help, but I can't offer anything more at the present.

- Dan
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4115
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeebustrain wrote:
danatkorg wrote:
Note that the KRONOS is USB class-compliant for audio. This means that there are no native Korg audio drivers per se; instead, it's using the standard Microsoft drivers.


Thanks for the clarification, Dan. It's kind of confusing though - true class compliancy would imply that it's OS agnostic, as long as the OS supports class complaint USB Audio (which I know that the newer linux kernels do).


That's correct, and the KRONOS is USB class-compliant. Since it's class-compliant, no KRONOS-specific audio drivers are provided for any operating system.

jeebustrain wrote:
I can get the input from the Kronos to work, but an output interface isn't even recognized.


Is this under Linux?

jeebustrain wrote:
That being said - what is the primary goal of the audio interface as a feature - is it just to capture a stereo mix of the Kronos into a PC (and vice-versa)? Or like Jim eluded to, is this going to be ultimately integrated into some feature of the plugin? Maybe I should just sit tight and run with what I have for now.


USB allows direct audio and MIDI connection to a DAW with a single cable. Personally, I use it for recording the output of the KRONOS. At the moment, I can't comment on the plug-in.
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jeebustrain
Platinum Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1283
Location: In a Roger Dean painting

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

danatkorg wrote:

Is this under Linux?



yea - it is. I know it's not officially supported - I was just doing what I could to try and make it work the way I want it to.

I have a bit of data based on my findings here:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=65911

since then, I've tried one of the 3.0.x kernels (by way of Ubuntu Oneiric) and I'm seeing the exact same thing. And I also realized that I misspoke a bit about the PX5D - it was usb midi, not audio.
_________________
::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::

My Music
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4115
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeebustrain wrote:
danatkorg wrote:

Is this under Linux?



yea - it is. I know it's not officially supported - I was just doing what I could to try and make it work the way I want it to.


Still seems like it should work, though...
_________________
Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jimknopf
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3354

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just a Windows user and no technician, so I can't say much about a USB class compliant midi/audio interface in Windows.

But a few things are obvious with the present driver:
- it does not even show up as WDM driver in Windows 7 32bit, nor 64bit (not speaking of Asio, which is no Microsoft, but a Steinberg standard and de facto standard for any serious recording in Windows so far).
- on my system the USB connection (if used or not, connection alone does it) causes audio dropouts in my recording software (Sonar X1 Producer)
- the DirectX driver latencies seem to be far beyond useable in any recording environment, no matter which software you use

Maybe we just have to see the plugin in use to see what is working and what possibly not. If the plugin is no generic solution, but works as VSTi with any Asio soundcard, the Kronos soundcard isn't needed. Even in this case, a working USB midi connection Kronos-PC, not causing audio recording problems here, would be welcome.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Korg Prologue 16 - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Cubase 10 Pro + Groove Agent 5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Redrain
Full Member


Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another problem is that the host sequencer don't see the 4 physical audio output ok the kronos....

It what very usefull from me to access 4 audio output from my external pc..

I use pc live, so I use output L/R for the audio track that I can't play

Audio Output 1 for the drummer click (I must use a click sound track on combi to redirect it to audio output 1 but I must copy the click setting to all the combi that I use because during the song play I must change combi )

If the sequencer (nuendo in my case) can see 4 the output of the Kronos I will do better work generating the click inside the sequencer and direct it to kronos audio output 1 !

The same thing with the bass player...Now we not have one and the bass is an audio file played by the sequencer....but I can't direct it to a bass amp because the bass track can be directed only to output L/R

Ah.....I don't want t carry on an audio card.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korg Forums Forum Index -> Korg Kronos All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group