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Microsampler is the bomb

 
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Benjaymun



Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Microsampler is the bomb Reply with quote

electrochrisso wrote:
The only thing wrong with the MS is the people who don't know how to use it the way it should be used. Laughing
If you read the user manual PDF before you buy it you would know exactly what it was capable of, before you buy. Wink
And for sonic capability, it has a far better dynamic range than the MacBook, like the difference between a transistor radio and a Marshall.

I agree. It is not a glorified rompler like most computer samplers, nor a loop pedal. Thank goodness.

Instead, it does something unique, which is make the normal laborious nightmare of resampling and getting sound into your sampler not only convenient and quick, but actually fun. The keyboard shortcuts and loop hold, crazily-easy sampling functions, plus the basic sequencer, built-in microphone and effects all conspire to make it not only easy to use, but an absolute pleasure to use. Something that resampling is normally anything but - normally it's a creativity stifling hassle. Bravo, Korg engineers! This is a user interface that makes a complicated task straightforward, where basically everyone else has failed before.

Things it is not for:
1) Live performance looping.
2) Playing back huge piano or orchestra patches.
3) Tyre-kicking the presets.

If you want these, buy Logic, Kontakt, or a loop pedal. I'm not interested in any of that, although pairing microsampler with a rompler or loop pedal could only add to it.

This is a sampler's sampler. It's an answer to the creative sampler's prayers. Creative use of sampling is a mostly lost art, which had it's heyday in the early 90s with people running trackers on Amigas and Atari STs. A lot of amazing music came out of that era, and has not been repeated, because an emphasis on sampling and resampling was replaced by the mid nineties with effected presets based on basic waveforms. Much less interesting, and much more tired. The infinite variety of stabs and chopped up breaks gave way to the predictability of supersaws and 909s.

Things it is for:
1) Layering sound and effects until they're phatter than phat. And it does this EASILY, which no other sampler does. Loop hold, detune, chorus, loop the timbre, layer it on itself. Original, phat timbres that most synthesists can only dream of. Let them have their Vanguards and Access Viruses - the Microsampler can out-phat them all. Technically any sampler could, but most make it a complete and utter pain in the rear, so no-one bothers. Enter the Microsampler.
2) Recycle-style chopping and timestretching. Hello breakbeats.
3) GRM Freeze-style timbre freezing. Hello stabs.
4) Capturing your hummed or do-dah'd musical ideas through the microphone, for sequencing later. Using the tap button and timestretch, you can even make your musical idea match your other musical ideas in terms of BPM. Then arrange it all in the sequencer, and sequence actual notes over the top of it, all without losing your idea. For those of us who haven't trained in piano for 10-15 years, this is a get-out-of-jail card for getting your ideas out of your head and into a sequencer, without any hassle. To do this with a computer would usually require bollocksing around with preamps, audio editors, mouses, "save as" and "open" dialogs, and finally, assigning to keys and tracks for importing into samplers and sequencers.
6) Heck, you could even make it into a rompler, and wouldn't need anything else for pianos or guitars or slap bass. Just designate Bank A as a piano, then auto-next samples from a rompler into it, Bank B as a guitar, etc. Then, when you need a piano part, sequence it in that bank, sample it, then import it into your main bank where you're working on the track.
7,8,9,10...) Etcetera....the sky, or rather your imagination, is the limit...

I could go on and on. I could talk about how the limited number of samples available per bank is a blessing in disguise, because limitations breed creativity, and how for every limitation there is a workaround (e.g. filter LFO with note-on reset to make a makeshift filter envelope). You WANT to be limited when it comes to samples, because there are an unlimited number of samples out there. It is extremely easy to get lost in the possibilities. You don't want gigs of samples hidden in memory to get the most out of them - you want a handful at your fingertips, attached to keys. Smile

I could talk about how this is basically a superpowered Roland W30, with the sound warping Boss SE70 effects box built in. If you're not aware, this is the gearlist Liam Howlett used to use back in the early days of The Prodigy. He would probably have killed for a Microsampler back then. The W30 sequencer doesn't even loop. He was pounding in high hats into that sequencer live, by hand. The Microsampler brings back that sort of "limitations lead to creativity" magic, if you're up to the challenge. There are no presets to hide behind. You might even have to learn some music theory, composition theory or harmonic theory to get the best out of this box.

If you're running out of sample space, set everything to 24kHz, and see if you notice any difference. People actually big up the grit of old samplers, and the old records done with them at 12kHz and 22kHz sound fine to my ears.

For those who haven't worked it out yet, creative sampling is the key to the rave music genres, and most hip hop. The sampler beats at the heart of genres like drum n bass, house and hardcore. It's far more important than a synth. The microsampler should be in every dance music bedroom studio worldwide. It's right up there with the TB303 and MPC in terms of classic gear, in my opinion, and I'd rather have it than either of these. Korg should have made a mint out of this thing, but instead they have to sell microkorgs to church groups and preset collectors. As another poster said, we're lucky to have it, as it's probably a market dead end.

In short, it is the bomb. Get them while you still can. In fact, at these prices, get three or four, in case they wear out. It's that good, and we're unlikely to see it's like again.


Last edited by Benjaymun on Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:52 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Telengard
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Joined: 07 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1

I love mine! Every time I use it I realise how amazing it is. The microSAMPLER seems to make everything sooo much easier and faster.

There are only 3 things else that I would wish for it:
1) SD card to backup and swap samples from. (The most important for me.)
2) Attack envelope parameter. (I can work around this one.)
3) Smaller footprint. (This one is just something I would like as I love having smaller gear. But that is just me, it really is pretty small already.)
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Benjaymun



Joined: 01 Apr 2013
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually glad that there is no SD card slot on it. I'd soon get lost in the sea of possibilities that 4 GB or 32 GB of samples represents. And there would be no excuse not to keep such a card slotted in, haunting me with the possibilities I would be ignoring.

I agree with Squarepusher when he says something to the effect that having to choose from 100 kick drums and 200 snares is his idea of hell.

When the human brain is forced to choose from more than about seven options, it tends to shut down critical faculties and begin to give up. Something to bear in mind when organising your sample folders - maybe pick your seven favourite kicks, and ditch the rest! It's not like you can't make a sample sound completely different with effects or anything anyway.
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lloydsmith
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Initially frustrations ruled the boards - & some people threw their toys out of the pram - when it wouldn't do well what they expected of it. However there were also some valid criticisms. It's never black or white.

Now it is a legacy product it will be interesting to see if its rep builds.

KORG marketed it clumsily but it was also a victim of the rising domination of the iPad app. I agree about the great sound quality - this should have been pushed a lot more. And the beatbox image limited people's imagination - there was a cringeworthy launch ad.

4 years on I'm really happy with how it has performed for me - There are workarounds for most of its issues - bar the small memory. Pitch bend can be achieved via Midi or Whammy pedal.
Workflow is fast & fun - especially with the great editor -I have an iPad but I don't enjoy the compressed sound & the generic feel of it, much as I don't like VSTs.

They are really cheap on eBay now - so it is easier to think kindly of it. Don't forget the FP was £450 UKP when it was launched & early adopters were lobbying for a software upgrade to no avail to fix issues like the attack time. To be fair to KORG if it had sold better this may have come about. Should have been there in the first place of course.

If KORG ever make a replacement I hope they take on board user feedback - both good & bad. Their marketing usually means feature spread so consumers are tempted to buy more product. I'm not totally opposed to this as for instance the MS plays wonderfully with KP3 & one could not incorporate the other without a steep pricetag.
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Telengard
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Benjaymun wrote:
I'm actually glad that there is no SD card slot on it. I'd soon get lost in the sea of possibilities that 4 GB or 32 GB of samples represents. And there would be no excuse not to keep such a card slotted in, haunting me with the possibilities I would be ignoring.


I understand about having too much choice. I would mainly want it for quick backup of "sets/songs/settings" as it were. I hate hooking it to the computer for backup as I use Linux and it adds a few more steps. I love having the SD card slot on my EMX. I can make a bunch of stuff and then just back it up by date without worrying that I might overwrite or lose something I created.
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Benjaymun



Joined: 01 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lloydsmith wrote:
early adopters were lobbying for a software upgrade to no avail to fix issues like the attack time.

For which there are multiple workarounds, if you actually get to know the microSAMPLER, which I very much suspect many of these people never did. Here are some off the top of my head:

1) Note-on resetting LFO on tremelo. Probably the most effective and straightforward solution. If you're fast, you can even hit FX on and off during sequence playback so that not every note hits the LFO, and sample the result.
2) Resample a note with a long decay or release, then hit reverse.
3) Apply reverb, and make it so wet that it builds.

I think that perhaps the lack of envelopes is another of those "blessing in disguise" things. Look at the popularity of the TB303, and note how it's ease of use is perhaps directly related to the lack of ADSR.
Quote:
There are workarounds for most of its issues - bar the small memory

There are workarounds for that too - sample at 24kHz, not 48kHz. You may even find the sound improves - as I mentioned above, some people in the know fetishise the grit and warmth of lower sample rates on old samplers, and if you're like me, you'll probably be unable to hear the difference anyway. Even try 12kHz on your drums, maybe. It's just the thought of 24kHz that is off-putting, not necessarily the reality.

That gives you double the sample memory of a single 48kHz bank.

Another solution, probably more to your liking - import samples into all banks, then, when you need say a piano, switch to your bank full of multisampled piano, sequence a passage there, resample the sequence onto an empty key, write the piano bank's samples, switch back to your "working bank", then reimport the sequenced sample back into your "working bank" for arranging there using "Load Sample".

That gives you 8 times the sample memory of a single bank.

Combine the two and you have 16 times the sample memory of a single 48kHz monoaural sample bank, i.e. 42 minutes of monoaural 24kHz samples, spread across 8 banks. 21 minutes of monoaural 48kHz is nothing to sniff at either, for that matter, if you choose not to reduce sample rate...

If that's not enough, you can always buy another microSAMPLER plus a midi cable and an audio cable, and have them sample one another. Note that this effectively doubles your "keyboard" patches (although this should be irrelevant, as you should be sampling your "keyboard" sample sequences anyway). Just view it as a rather big memory card expansion, maybe. Smile
Quote:
Pitch bend can be achieved via Midi or Whammy pedal.

Again, there are workarounds that don't need outside intervention, if you're willing to work within creative limits. For instance, make sure the BPM Sync setting on a sample is in Pitch Change, then hit the Tap Tempo button once. Mess with FX control 2. Sample your noodlings with Gate or One Shot set to trigger by Note On, then insert them into your sequence where you need them. Alternatively, just use the pitchshift effect if you need something more live (although that's likely to have artifacts).

In the SOS review they pointed out that the Microsampler is scarey to the user in a blank page kind of way. Because it's so simple and powerful, like a pen and paper, there's nowhere to hide - it just stares back at you, like a word processor waiting for the bestselling novel to come out of you. Heck, you can't even play with it's presets or build patches to pass the time and pretend you're being productive - it takes some actual work on the part of the user to get some seamless loops going to feed it. I think this is part of the true reason why it draws so much criticism - this little keyboard is confronting, and shows you your weaknesses.

In my case, it showed me that I need to know more music theory, composition theory, and harmony theory. Reading up accordingly...
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lloydsmith
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The intelligence of your workarounds certainly underline your point.

My only personal dislikes are the overlight dials & the recessed buttons - certainly made me keep my fingernails short & learn the keyboard shortcuts quickly.

I wonder how many have been sold to date- I woudn't think it's been a disaster - just not up to MicroKorg levels.
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Benjaymun



Joined: 01 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lloydsmith wrote:
The intelligence of your workarounds certainly underline your point.

My only personal dislikes are the overlight dials & the recessed buttons - certainly made me keep my fingernails short & learn the keyboard shortcuts quickly.

I wonder how many have been sold to date- I woudn't think it's been a disaster - just not up to MicroKorg levels.

Thank you for the compliment, though the pitch bend workaround is not my idea. If anyone hasn't read it, this thread here could make the penny drop for you on this device:
http://sp-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13749
I suggest to anyone who owns a microsampler and hasn't started down this road to try starting with the "QUICK EFFECT RESAMPLE" and "RESAMPLE PATTERN" recipes and you may begin to get a hint of how to start thinking when using the resampling possibilities. The manual doesn't really spell it out for you - what's possible with the resampler just listening to whatever the device happens to be doing, that is. Shocked

With regard to the recessed dials, I agree - there must be some way to make the FX Control dials easier to manipulate. Maybe if we were to attach small paper clamps to them, then spread the clamp handles to a horizontal position? Must try that.
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lloydsmith
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a gripping issue, just that there is no weight or resistence to them so they easily change values unintentionally.
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electrochrisso
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't add more to this thread, other than to say I love the limitations of sample memory, considering I come from a background of Emu Emax 1 and Ensoniq Mirage, a fraction of sample memory to play with compared even to the MS, but you can do so much, it all depends on how you use it.
The MS is a creative instrument, designed to create high quality audio, so the MicroSampler Rocks!. Very Happy
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Hugo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I must say the "quick effect resample" and some of the other functionality looks quite intreaguing. Maybe I should take a closer look at this baby. Thanks for all the info
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shockwave7000



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

man, all this conversation on here and im just now really getting started!!! i learned how to connect to the laptop and get samples to my banks and went online and got some kool samples!! i tell you..this thing is awesome to me!! sooo much that you can do and a whole lot i have to learn and the samples i recorded using the mic is outstanding!! a tear wells up in the eye when i think of the possibilities!! ooohhh the possibilities!! Twisted Evil
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StudioF
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big +1
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electrochrisso
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MS Rocks Cool Smile Very Happy
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