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What do I get for $3000 more? Have mARRANGER...
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Minneapolis Musician
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Location: Minneapolis

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:52 am    Post subject: What do I get for $3000 more? Have mARRANGER... Reply with quote

I am new to arrangers. To get a feel and see what they do, I recently bought a microARRANGER.

With headphones or a great PA, it sounds really good.

Yes, the keys are small. However, I can play chords on it that I cannot stretch to on my Kurzweil.

My question: what more do you get if you buy a top of the line, $3500 KORG arranger?


Last edited by Minneapolis Musician on Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fransman
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Location: Netherlands (PA4X+PAas+TR-Rack. Past: PA3X, PA800, Yam PSR-S910, PA500, Techn KN1000, Yam PSR-16)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, a LOT! Very Happy

See specifications here:

http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/pa3x/page_3.php
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al urezzio
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:28 am    Post subject: what do you get ??? Reply with quote

the korg pa3x is this incredible arranger ... many styles , sounds ,double sequencer , built in harmonizer ... but it depends on what ur using it for ..i am a solo performer ..i worked my way up from a pa50 , pa800 & now a pa3x & i've never been more satisfied with a keyboard ...if its $$$ the pa900 is also a good keyboard ..doesnt have the keyboard action of the 3x also its made in china , the 3x is made in italy ,,you can go back & forth with the pros & cons of which keyboard ... i have already forgot the amount i paid becuase its that great of a keyboard i also waited for a great deal with extra percentage off to get the price down & i also got 18 months free finance ...go for it u won't regret it
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jimsweb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: what do you get ??? Reply with quote

al urezzio wrote:
the korg pa3x is this incredible arranger ... many styles , sounds ,double sequencer , built in harmonizer ... but it depends on what ur using it for ..i am a solo performer ..i worked my way up from a pa50 , pa800 & now a pa3x & i've never been more satisfied with a keyboard ...if its $$$ the pa900 is also a good keyboard ..doesnt have the keyboard action of the 3x also its made in china , the 3x is made in italy ,,you can go back & forth with the pros & cons of which keyboard ... i have already forgot the amount i paid becuase its that great of a keyboard i also waited for a great deal with extra percentage off to get the price down & i also got 18 months free finance ...go for it u won't regret it


+1
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Minneapolis Musician
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:55 pm    Post subject: More from the Original Poster... Reply with quote

Well,

I bought the PA900 from Zzounds for a 45-day trial period.

It seemed that it gives most of what the pa3x has, for significantly less cash.

So far I am very impressed. What I need now is a great book or tutorial on "Advanced Arranger Use". I can see that a professional arranger is a new kind of instrument in its own right. Your left hand can "conduct" the backup very creatively once you see what is happening. Moving a few fingers of a voicing in rhythm can create a fresh backing style and feel. Very complex and jazzy chords are possible.

Add to that using the pads creatively and making your own for specific uses in songs.

This arranger is very "deep". The reference manual is not a good way to learn. A lot is confusing and not well documented.

If I found a great book on advanced usage, I'd buy it in a second.

Glenn

A song done in my DAW, not on the arranger:
https://www.reverbnation.com/glenngalen/song/21469847-searching-and-believing
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Giner
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Location: Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome MM.

At the top of the Pa900/Pa3X Le forum is this 'sticky' containing a list of instructional videos:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=82627

Also, there's Keith Ball's excellent site:
http://korgpahelper.yolasite.com/

Plus member SamCA's excellent You Tube videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/KorgKeyboardTutorial

Those should get you on your way Smile
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Minneapolis Musician
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

As I work with the PA900, I am starting to learn how recording your own multiple-bar pads for specific uses can really add to the professional sound and avoid a simple backing that is ultimately boring. I can see how they had to throw in something for everyone in the styles. It's really up to you to customize this thing to your "sound".

I am not to thrilled with the TC Helicon harmonies; I have a Digitech Vocalist Live 4 that is much more natural sounding. I'm going to see how I can get that into the picture for live performances. It's driven by audio being fed through it, not midi.

Overall I can see that if you REALLY learn what the Korg can do and you get creative, you can really develop your own sound.
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Synth song of mine: https://www.reverbnation.com/glenngalen/song/21469847-searching-and-believing-synth-beat

PA4x harmonies, Beach Boys song: https://youtu.be/3drsnU6j8Po?t=3m25s


All songs: http://www.reverbnation.com/GlennGalen
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montatore
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: What do I get for $3000 more? Have mARRANGER... Reply with quote

Minneapolis Musician wrote:
I can play chords on it that I cannot stretch to on my Kurzweil.


you either have one hand, or are playing chords with more than 10 notes ? Shocked
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montatore
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: What do I get for $3000 more? Have mARRANGER... Reply with quote

Minneapolis Musician wrote:


My question: what more do you get if you buy a top of the line, $3500 KORG arranger?


you get a free Bahamas holiday from Korg, they will supply also beautiful girls in bikini dancing around when you are at the beach. Champagne included Laughing
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montatore
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: More from the Original Poster... Reply with quote

Minneapolis Musician wrote:
Well,

I bought the PA900 from Zzounds for a 45-day trial period.

It seemed that it gives most of what the pa3x has, for significantly less cash.

So far I am very impressed. What I need now is a great book or tutorial on "Advanced Arranger Use". I can see that a professional arranger is a new kind of instrument in its own right. Your left hand can "conduct" the backup very creatively once you see what is happening. Moving a few fingers of a voicing in rhythm can create a fresh backing style and feel. Very complex and jazzy chords are possible.

Add to that using the pads creatively and making your own for specific uses in songs.

This arranger is very "deep". The reference manual is not a good way to learn. A lot is confusing and not well documented.

If I found a great book on advanced usage, I'd buy it in a second.

Glenn

A song done in my DAW, not on the arranger:
https://www.reverbnation.com/glenngalen/song/21469847-searching-and-believing


Arranger keyboards are far from new, the first models cane out in 1981, I think. The first one I used in 1998. But I made the 'mistake' to stick to synth workstations. After years, I realized that I liked arrangers a lot more.

I agree about what you said PA900 vs PA3X etc. I too would prefer the latter but the PA900 seems to include most of the package, at a significantly lesser price. Like the other user implied, if it's $$$ the PA900 makes sense.

As for the book, very good question. Arrangers seems to be mysteriously shrouded in mystery, as well as being an often completely misunderstood instruments by snobs and people who THINK they know a lot about music, so they associate arranger keys with polka.

Well, I see many biggies. My definition of a good and serious musician is a musician who's able to appreciate and understand a very wide range of musical genres.
In that sense, I am blessed. I have no problem listening and playing almost anything, from music of the renaissance period, to Beethoven, to circus music, to polka, to children music, to rock, to flamenco, etc etc

Going back to the book, the only ones I found (the only good ones anyways) are the LCM graded exam books for electronic keyboard (they call it 'electronic keyboard' but it's arranger keyboard 100 per cent).

LCM has a book called 'Performance guide for electronic keyboard and organ'. It deals with how to use creatively the arranger keyboard, and using harmony , orchestration and arranging skills with it. The book is written by Andy Smith and Tony Pegler, LCM publications. I must stress that the book takes the arranger keyboard quite seriously and that it's assumed you can read music.

Reading music, in my opinion, is an essential ingredient anyways. You hear stuff like 'nah, it's not necessary', but it's never said by those who read music, because none of them regretted ever having learned it.
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Minneapolis Musician
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks you for the book suggestion.

Here are a some things I am learning about using arrangers creatively.

--- Ignore the labels on a style, such as German Polka, etc. You can use *any* style with different sounds, and mute some of the parts, and use the style to "drive" sounds on an external synth to make something completely new and fresh. You don't have to only make "German polkas" with it.

--- Learn how a given style "interprets" your left hand chords and start to move your left hand fingers during the cycle in ways that make for fresh, creative accompaniment. TO do this, make sure the "advanced" chord recognition is active that uses three-notes to decide what chord you are playing.
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Synth song of mine: https://www.reverbnation.com/glenngalen/song/21469847-searching-and-believing-synth-beat

PA4x harmonies, Beach Boys song: https://youtu.be/3drsnU6j8Po?t=3m25s


All songs: http://www.reverbnation.com/GlennGalen
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montatore
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minneapolis Musician wrote:


You don't have to only make "German polkas" with it.



Unless you want to. Smile It all depends about what you are trying to achieve.

The means are secondary. The goal is what matters Smile

Also, I am not for having complicated setups, such as hooking up a keyboard to another, etc....to me it's about having a single instrument and doing a lot with it, whether it's an arranger keyboard or a classical guitar.

I find that the more complicated a setup is, the more time I will waste on it and that will take time away from music itself.

That's just me though


Last edited by montatore on Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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montatore
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minneapolis Musician wrote:
TO do this, make sure the "advanced" chord recognition is active that uses three-notes to decide what chord you are playing.


Trust me my friend, I know everything there is to know about chords. Smile Been studying harmony for years.

Yes I use the 'expert' mode, and also bass inversion is always engaged. Nothing else will do for me as my chord progressions are quite tricky Smile
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montatore
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS. without the LCM books, you will miss stuff that you can do on a arranger keyboard, things that aren't obvious. I learned quite a lot from these books
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Minneapolis Musician
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Location: Minneapolis

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

montatore wrote:
Minneapolis Musician wrote:
TO do this, make sure the "advanced" chord recognition is active that uses three-notes to decide what chord you are playing.


Trust me my friend, I know everything there is to know about chords. Smile Been studying harmony for years.

Yes I use the 'expert' mode, and also bass inversion is always engaged. Nothing else will do for me as my chord progressions are quite tricky Smile


Sorry, I was speaking in general about what I have found. I was not suggesting these things to you specifically. Smile
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Synth song of mine: https://www.reverbnation.com/glenngalen/song/21469847-searching-and-believing-synth-beat

PA4x harmonies, Beach Boys song: https://youtu.be/3drsnU6j8Po?t=3m25s


All songs: http://www.reverbnation.com/GlennGalen
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