Korg Forums

[Kevin Nolan]

Actually, for the record, if I'm being overly 'positive' about the Montage it comes from here:

Many of you might not know that when the EX5 was released in 1998 it received an onslaught of negative feedback over the by then quite new Web.

so devastating was that feedback - based almost exclusively on the fact that the EX5 was underpowered in DSP capability and kept issuing a notice to the screen that things you were trying to do were not possible - that it really got up the noses of the user base.

A Yamaha Ireland person at the time told me (with solid inside information) that this sustained negative feedback attack killed off the EX5 and had a real effect internal to Yamaha; contributing to Yamaha leaving synthesis behind, and concentrating on an enhanced version of the EX5 without the VL engine and FDSP synthesis (the culprits in the DSP problem). I was one voice of that negative campaign - I can assure you. In the intervening years I've been highly critical of Yamaha

So I suppose, almost subliminally, because I genuinely see a lot of positives in the Montage, I find myself defending it if I'm seeing it being misrepresented (as it genuinely was in saying it had a maximum polyphony of 120 voices).


And finally - I find it curious that the most intriguing discussion on Montage is on Korgforums.


This Korgforums Latest News" forum is turning out to be a real melting-pot of thoughts on synthesis - and by and large all good discussion (where on other forums it can get quite aggressive for sure).

[Jan1]

It's alright Kevin.
Communication in real life can be confusing enough, let alone through text.
But we'll manage.

And regarding the Montage: personally I'm still on the fence.

On the one hand I was disappointed over the fact that I hoped that the Montage would have been a true next generation Motif workstation with more than one additional sound engine, something along the lines of a KRONOS.
Whichever way you turn it, KORG really has produced a benchmark for workstations, and the marketing slogan of the KRONOS being a game changer turned out to be quite correct.

On the other hand, I really like some of the sounds in the Montage I have heard thus far, and it needs no debate that it has a very powerful FM engine with unprecedented programming possibilities.
Specs tell only one part of the story.
When an instrument truly inspires you and feels like a natural extension of your inspiration, that's really priceless.
I'm quite confident that the sales of the Montage will exceed those of the EX5.

I also think that it is important for Yamaha to receive honest feedback from musicians.
Inevitably that means criticism on certain decisions Yamaha made, but if that criticism comes from honest musicians and not from trolls intent on wreaking havoc, I think that is good and constructive, and it allows Yamaha to take the criticism into consideration.

Yamaha feels there is no need to warrant a workstation in the $3000-4000 price range, onboard sequencing abilities are deemed unnecessary in a day and age when most have a computer at home, and I am one of those musicians who feel that they are wrong.
I LIKE to use onboard sequencers, I like to have onboard sampling, I like the engine of the Reface CS so much that it would be great to see this in a Yamaha workstation, I love to have a specialized and finetuned ecosystem as a vehicle for creative expression, one which also allows me to work independently from the computer also.
That's honest and sincere feedback, and if Yamaha receives similar signals from other musicians, maybe they will rethink their future decision based on the feedback they receive.

[afr]

Hi Kevin,

I do believe that negative feedback can affect on future decision in the way to develop a product

But, is also true that seems that Yamaha does not care so much about users feedback

E.g. a lot of people are complaining about the sequencer, but they don't care

Look at the answer on Yamahasynth forum, bad mister says: You don't need an on board seq, montage has a new workflow, if you don't like is not the keyboard for you

Is this an answer?

Instead in my opinion they should pay attention and re integrate at least what was available on motif

They don't have to invent nothing

The same for the sampler and other features that people is looking for

In this Korg and Kurzweil are more customer oriented

Cheers

[Bachus]

[afr]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jObR8avIAkY

Orchestral sounds demo

Sonically speaking is a great keyboard

[aron]

>Why don't you simply submit the question at yamahasynth.com?

I did submit to Motifator and others did as well, I could be incorrect, as I said.

What I don't like is that Kevin does not have the machine. Let's be clear about this - Kevin does not have the keyboard.

I posted the answer from one of the programmers who has had the machine for about 1 1/2 years.

Kevin _could_ be right, but he keeps on posting "overly positive" points - like the fact that having only performances is somehow an answer to everything when it is not. AFAIK he has no instruments that do this, I do as well as some others and when we point out that this introduces its own set of problems, he ignores it.

In any case this reminds me of the Jupiter 80 fiasco, and I am out of here. I have my contacts at Yamaha and I will check out the Montage directly from them.
_________________
Korg Kronos, RD-88, Yamaha VL1, Deep Mind 6, Korg Kross, author of unrealBook for iPad.

[EXer]

[Kevin Nolan]

Group Hug !!!





Aron - I'm nice - promise!!!!


I admit to not having the machine, but all the specs and videos do bare out the spec's I'm quoting. Not trying to get on a high horse on this and if wrong, not a problem at all admitting it. I admit I do shoot from from the hip a bit - but I do read all this stuff thoroughly - and in fairness - I have no problem issuing apologies in public where I got it wrong or was a tad aggressive. Have huge respect for this forum, and all its members. It's a great forum and a credit to Sharp (and Korg for hosting it).

But lets get rid of the personal dimension to all of this and get back to the Montage.

I was thinking about what you were saying Aron, but if you watch the Yamaha NAMM interview on Sonicstte.com he does say 128 note polyphony for the piano. If this is the case - and your point about it taking up two slots in a performance is correct (no reason to doubt it ) - then it might be that, because the Pianos programs are build on stereo samples, they may need two slots so as to be panned hard left and right.

So - the issue you likely address is a slightly different but equally interesting one - namely - when using stere sampled instruments, they take up two performance slots, leaving you with only 6 others for your disposal, and not seven.

In other words Aron - the cost is one of a slot in the performance, and not polyphony.

I do think you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that Piano's are at 128 note polyphony - but as you astutely point out - at he cost of an extra performance slot.

[voip]

The orchestral sounds in the demo don't seem at all bad.


.

[DmitryKo]

[Bald Eagle]

The Montage sequencer should have basic editing so you can at least change a note. Other than that I'm content with the specs and the sounds I've heard from demos. I will likely get one.

I'm curious ... Does MIDI In from USB/Cubase get echoed to MIDI DIN Out or Thru?

[jimknopf]

Don't remember where, but it was said that USB midi and DIN midi can't be used at the same time with the Montage-

@DmitryKo
None of us knows what kind of user reaearch Yamaha has done. And none of us users can take his own contacts as statistically relevant.

The one thing I can say however is
a) that among former Motif users I talked with most are dissatisfied with several areas of real downgrades of the Montage compared with the Motif (sequencer, sampling, etc etc.), and a bit uncertain if the upgrades (some new sounds, FM-X, Superknob etc.) will outweigh the downgrades.
b) there is a lot of disappointment concerning the following areas compared with a workstation like the Kronos, mainly concerning:
- missing VAs
- missing sequencer functionality and low midi song limit (64)
- missing B3 clone (dislike for the Yamaha B3 sounds and the really weak Leslie sim)
- missing access to sound upgrades by easy user sampling, with plenty of memory and streaming

There's still a lot to like about the Montage, but it is really FAR from any overall convincing concept IMHO, especially for keyboarders who want to be able to do some gigging with just one multifunctional keyboard, or for those who mainly use one besides a VA/analog synth or other second tier keys.

And concerning the sequencer:
I myself use Cubase or (if not at home) an iPad with Cubasis for recording, and wouln't like to use the Kronos seuqencer for that. But I would never want to use something as basic and limited as the Yamaha Montage sequencer for that: this looks like a definitive no go to me (and to others I talked to as well).
And even concerning recording, when debating in a German forum, I was surprised, that some keyboarders insisted they wanted and needed the Kronos sequencer for recording as well, doing some song edit changes in Hotel rooms between gigs, or adding some bars for a playback intro etc. They really use this functionality and would get by even less with a Montage.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

[Tschury]

[DmitryKo]

[afr]