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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 8388
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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 Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: A post Xmas/New year's Karma wish |
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I try to work with what I have , develop it, broaden the musical context.
I note again , Kronos is +6 yrs old. I don't believe Kronos has ever received any beneficial Karma update. Obvious to me, Karma is 1 of the many strengths of
Kronos.
IMO, I think Korg decided, for the usual business reasons, to block Karma improvement from the annual OS process. Or from any other update process. I am disappointed from a musical/Song writer point of view.
I know about Karma standalone software. Thats not my context. For a few reasons, I am not interested in that alternative. There merits of it are another
discussion.
Another observation, is the lack of quality combi sets utilizing Karma effectively and musically for Kronos. I wish that Stephen and his talented partners would broaden the context and use of Karma. Take on Jazz. Take on orchestral. Don't over emphasize EDM. Thank you.
Yes, I know there are several 3rd parties that offer their Combi creations - maybe they use Karma here and there. Anyway, nothing in particular has jumped on orchestra, brass/woodwind ensembles, etc. Think jazz and movie sound tracks. I am not seeing this or hearing it.
And I believe the various 3rd parties make little money for all the work. Again, thats mostly another topic.
I am not sure many agree with me, as to what I see is potential musical need.
Maybe what I would would like per the above is such a small niche that the 3rd parties do not see any financial gain. I do believe almost everything has an economic undercurrent.
Thank you for considering this personal rant 
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Kronos 88. nanoPAD2. Roland FA-07, MBP, UR44
Achieve your musical dreams
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StephenKay
KARMA Developer
Approved Merchant
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 2855
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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PatrickD
Full Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 203
Location: Wenatchee Washington
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Rant on my friend Rant on! Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!! 
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KRONOS 2 88, NANO, Roland A800, CUBASE 10
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kronoSphere
Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 447
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Indeed I agree with GregC concerning some Karma (not all) I have been very troubled to see that some Karma are highly "highly" to the point that they can be used with just little changes. And on the other side many Karma are useless simply because they are too much complicated and go in too many directions except one : the music side ! Nevertheless I'm very happy here to thank once again Stephen Kay for all this precious work : Some of my musics owe a lot to him in such a musical way. Happy Xmas days to all here there and everywhere. Yes !
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trees are going fast.
https://www.lairdeparis.fr
Current Gear : Kronos 88 / Seaboard Rise / Triton Extreme / Sequoia / Motif Rack XS / TC Helicon voicelive rack / Audio & VSTi plug-ins connected /wide touchscreen / iPad Pro 512. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 8388
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| kronoSphere wrote: | | Indeed I agree with GregC concerning some Karma (not all) I have been very troubled to see that some Karma are highly "highly" to the point that they can be used with just little changes. And on the other side many Karma are useless simply because they are too much complicated and go in too many directions except one : the music side ! Nevertheless I'm very happy here to thank once again Stephen Kay for all this precious work : Some of my musics owe a lot to him in such a musical way. Happy Xmas days to all here there and everywhere. Yes ! |
I like Karma drums/scenes in particular. They are essential to a live feel, and support change ups in my Songs. But they tend to be overly busy out of the box- thus I deconstruct them. I am learning how to best simplify them so they fit better in my material.
Since I am a long time Kronos owner, I have completed what is useful, for my purposes. I can understand many owners feel Kronos + Karma is an endless ocean. Thats not my context. I am interested in seeing new 3rd party material to support orchestral, jazz, etc ( not EDM).
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Kronos 88. nanoPAD2. Roland FA-07, MBP, UR44
Achieve your musical dreams
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EJ2
Approved Merchant
Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 2268
Location: Port Rowan, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | kronoSphere wrote: | | Indeed I agree with GregC concerning some Karma (not all) I have been very troubled to see that some Karma are highly "highly" to the point that they can be used with just little changes. And on the other side many Karma are useless simply because they are too much complicated and go in too many directions except one : the music side ! Nevertheless I'm very happy here to thank once again Stephen Kay for all this precious work : Some of my musics owe a lot to him in such a musical way. Happy Xmas days to all here there and everywhere. Yes ! |
I like Karma drums/scenes in particular. They are essential to a live feel, and support change ups in my Songs. But they tend to be overly busy out of the box- thus I deconstruct them. I am learning how to best simplify them so they fit better in my material.
Since I am a long time Kronos owner, I have completed what is useful, for my purposes. I can understand many owners feel Kronos + Karma is an endless ocean. Thats not my context. I am interested in seeing new 3rd party material to support orchestral, jazz, etc ( not EDM). |
As Stephen has indicated, Greg, I have a few jazzy templates in the works, but...and that's a big "BUT", sets targeting only one or a few genres typically do not sell that well as opposed to mixed genre collections.
Both Catalyst 1 and 2 contain a few jazz and symphonic combis. The same will be true for Catalyst 3....whenever we get around to producing it. I have taken a break from KARMA-fied combi development till next spring.
Thanks for being a loyal KARMA patron, Greg.
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Cheers,
Jim (aka EJ2) Karma-Lab Associate Combi Developer
CATALYST v 2 Blast of Inspiration for KRONOS & OASYS: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst2.html
CATALYST v 1 Combi Explosion for KRONOS, OASYS, M3, & K-M50: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/catalyst1.html
CHEMISTRY 3, a Groove Injection for Your Karma: http://www.karma-lab.com/sounds/chem3.html
SoundCloud MP3 Demoshttps://soundcloud.com/ej2-sc |
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dfahrner
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 553
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to see added KARMA features that would make it more usable as an arranger - I made some suggestions along these lines back in 2013 (!) - see:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=523027#523027
"With...added KARMA functionality [as described in that posting], the KRONOS would be a kind of 'super arranger', not only providing the kind of backup parts (intros, fills, endings, etc.) that arrangers traditionally do, but also modifying them in realtime using KARMA's Performance Real-Time Controls and Dynamic MIDI capability. It would be an arranger that can respond to what the performer is playing."
Even without these kinds of changes, I've been able to use KARMA as an arranger on duo jazz gigs (with a few custom GEs and some external MIDI processing), and the singer always says that it sounds a lot more like a real band than an arranger...but, as GregC says, it's a business decision by Korg: it's not worth putting any more money into improving Kronos KARMA capability, since it apparently isn't used by most Kronos owners...probably because with all of it's capability, it's too hard for people to customize it for their own needs...
df |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 8388
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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As Stephen has indicated, Greg, I have a few jazzy templates in the works, but...and that's a big "BUT", sets targeting only one or a few genres typically do not sell that well as opposed to mixed genre collections.
Both Catalyst 1 and 2 contain a few jazz and symphonic combis. The same will be true for Catalyst 3....whenever we get around to producing it. I have taken a break from KARMA-fied combi development till next spring.
Thanks for being a loyal KARMA patron, Greg.[/quote]
Hi Jim, its good you and Stephen are responsive. Thank you for letting me know what is going on.
You know your marketplace. I understand yo have to cover most of the genres.
Its just my opinion that we are saturated with Dance/techno/pop. True, thats likely where the herd is. I don't follow the herd and I think the genres might fade and become (more) marginalized .
Which is why I think jazz/orchestra, even hip hop jazz deserves more attention.
And more attention to classic instruments- trumpets, woodwinds etc. We are also swamped with synth sounds. After awhile, hearing 1000 synth solos is not exciting. We have 50 yrs of synth sounds at our disposal.
Again, I don't follow the herd. I sometimes think there should be a BPM speed limit. There are numerous songs that sound great at 80-95 BPM.
Maybe being different and slowing down ( from 140 BPM)is worth the risk.
Someone will try and stand out in the crowd.
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Achieve your musical dreams
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Peas&Carrots
Full Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 138
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | Another observation, is the lack of quality combi sets utilizing Karma effectively and musically for Kronos. I wish that Stephen and his talented partners would broaden the context and use of Karma. Take on Jazz. Take on orchestral. Don't over emphasize EDM. Thank you. |
I agree - this is probably due to the musical influences and marketing intentions that were around when most of the Karma GE's were created. Some updates would be nice.
| dfahrner wrote: | | I'd like to see added KARMA features that would make it more usable as an arranger |
Some features are already there but have not been explored - possibly because not many people know about them...
KARMA TEMPLATES can play a completely separate user specified pattern for each of the 8 Karma Scenes (e.g. intro/verse/chorus/bridge/outro etc.) The templates are created by entering notes in the GE pattern grid or by importing a midi file to GE (Karma software required for both). The KGE is then exported to Kronos for use without the software.
I think a reason why Templates haven't been fully explored before is because Karma by default tries to keep you confined within the Karma concept which many find too complicated - BUT you can of course escape this by turning stuff off!
More Template slots would be needed if this ever takes off........... |
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oliv73
Full Member
Joined: 10 Sep 2017
Posts: 137
Location: france
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with dfahrner :
"I'd like to see added KARMA features that would make it more usable as an arranger" |
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