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Trouble with reinitializing / Combi corrupted?

 
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KronosAddict



Joined: 17 Jan 2018
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Trouble with reinitializing / Combi corrupted? Reply with quote

Hello,

I first play and touch everything in my new Kronos 2....
and then I realized that some combis didn't sound as before.

For example : the combi User G 045 Sax Section EXs3 doesn't sound like saxophone anymore!...
I realized that this combi was built with some programs like User G 125, 129... and these programs are "INIT PROGRAM"... so I understand why my sax section doesnt sound like before.

I should have delete some programs and/or some samples? but what? and why?...

I read all help documents and looked at all websites...
I tried to reload all files, to reset RAM, to recopy files from CD to SSD...
It didn't work...
and unfortunately I am still looking for a solution

HELP PLEASE !
Thanks a lot
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you orinally had, was it the factory sound set plus bonus packs?

Or did you have third party banks that were later added and never made a part of the PCG file you normally work with?

All original and backed up files can be restored. If you did not back up any customized programs plus programs sets that had been loaded into User-G bank, you may have lost your personally customized programs, but any programs can be retrieved from the CD Rom and also third party files downloaded from your korg accounte where the authorization key should still be stored.

I suspect you have what you are looking for in a PCG file somewhere in disk mode. Your disk mode files are still there right? And how good was your habit of backing up all your edits and files, before this problem started?
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KronosAddict



Joined: 17 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your answer.
I originally had factory sound (preload.pcg) and all EXs 1 to 9 , and Exs 17 and 18. No third party programs.
I just began with my kronos, touching everywhere... maybe I customized one or two programs and combis, and tried to save everything...

After that I realized that may EXS3 combis didn't sound like before.
The programs that the combi needs, pointed to "Init programs" (as I told before like program User G 125, 129 etc)

I tried to relaod everything (Preload.pcg and all EXs...) from SSD and from CD... but I always have the same problem!!! Impossible to get the initial Combi User G 045, 046, 047 etc...
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19naia
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kronos 2 Factory KSC file includes EXs 1,3,4,5,6,,8,9,17 and 18. That will tell you what EXs you have as part of your PCG file.

By Default, Kronos 2 has U-G program bank empty/initialized in the factory PCG file.
It simply does not exist in the disk mode PCG file. Not on SSD and not on CD. That is the default factory configuration.

Good news is that U-G bank is normally used as a default port bank for new incoming banks. And even incoming banks of anything, to include duplicate of another bank such as U-E or U-D. You may find your missing saxaphones there. Then you can write a copy of them back to program UG slot required by your Combi setup. Or just change the combi timbre to the UE or UD sax that you find.

Did you buy second hand or new Kronos? Because U-G combi and U-G program are all Initialized banks from the factory in brand new Kronos 2.
It sounds like someone used UG combi and UG program to copy programs and combis from other banks, to then edit in the new location without disturbing the original location.

I think you have your combi and programs in your files but not in the bank location you last had them and not in the edit configuration you last had them. Those bank&slot locations are custom-work/user locations and were likely never saved to a PCG. Writing a program or combination in the mode menu page, is not the same as saving it to disk mode PCG file. All saves should end up in a PCG file in disk mode if you want to avoid these kinds of problems.

U-E is where i find Saxaphones on Kronos2 factory PCG. There may be a few more saxophones buried in other Banks, like U-D. It may be long and hard to search for them all but you really should search entire program content some time, for a general idea of where things are at. The “Find” feature can help make the search easier.

I suspect you have a used Kronos if you did not move those programs and Combis to UG banks yourself. Those banks are custom work locations. User projects. Someone put those there after the factory shipping box was opened.

It is too late to go back afer you have loaded from CD and Preload files already.

Your only hope is that you have another PCG file somewhere in Disk mode where the custom work was saved. Or you find the missing saxaphones in a factory filled bank and use that to reconstruct your combi.
Go to disk mode and look around for any other PCG files besides the one you did loading from before. You may get lucky and find what you are looking for saved there.

You are going to need serious advice about PCG management and write+save practices, regardless of how well or bad this ends up for you. Users can not be ready for custom work without 2 or more PCG files, and duplicates of the same on external USB memory.

Good luck and sorry about your situation.
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KronosAddict



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This Kronos 2 is brand new !
So it is me who made mistakes...
And I dont know how to restore all the sounds

To be precise I checked on my Kronos:

In the Global menu, on "KSC Auto-load" page, I have the following :
EXs1
Exs2...
etc
...Exs9, 17, and 18
and PRELOAD.PCG

In the Disk menu, i have :
-EXS Extra/ inside when opened : KRS 06 and KRONOS X
-FACTORY :
when I open FACTORY, there is :
.EXS Extra (when opened: EXS1-19)
.PRELOAD.PCG
.PRELOAD.KSC (when opened : EXS1-19, but with different sizes than EXS1-19 in Exs Extra)
.PRELOAD.KGE
.PRELOAD.SNG
.PRELOAD_A (what is this?)
.PRELOAD_Individuals.KSC (when opened: EXS1-19 again!!!)
-SAVE FB.PCG (this is a file that I saved after customizing some programs and setlists...)

What shall I do with all that?
I don't understand why EXS1-19 do appear :
in FACTORY/EXS EXTRA
in FACTORY/PRELOAD.KSC
and in FACOTRY/PRELOAD_Individuals
(with different sizes)

Thanks for your help
Just tell me what to do to get the original sounds...
Thanks again

Very Happy
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19naia
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t know what the orginal sounds were to guide you to them.

You say they were in U-G bank and you can go to look for yourself in the Factory PCG “Program” file to look for U-G bank.

An orignal Factory PCG wil not have U-G bank in the program files.

So for you to have been using programs from U-G program banks, they had to have been placed there by you and if you did not “SAVE” them to PCG in disk mode, they would be lost from the bank.

You are not totally out of luck but you have quite a task in trying to find the original program bank your saxaphones came from and then to write them back to U-G or change your combi to use the factory location of the same sound.

I cannot tell you where to find sounds i do not know.

You gave me a Combi listed by Bank and slot number, U-G-045. Factory combi set has UG intitalized for combi, so your U-G-45 combi is a personalized location that i do not have on my kronos.
If the combo was copied from another location to U-G-45, it should have a name as all factory combi and programs do. If you give me a factory name for the combi, i can cross check it on my Kronos factory set.
But so far, it sounds like a totally custom combi with custom program locations used such as U-G program bank that is not part of factory program sets.
All i can do is tell you where i found a group of saxaphones in my factory Program banks. U-E, somewhere around 020 range and up.

Did your combi have a name? Was it a copy that was written over from a Factory Combi location?
If so, it should have a name and that can very likely help me to get you half way to where you want to be.
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KronosAddict



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Thank you for your help

It seems all combis corrupted are Exs3 Combis

For example, one of them is :
COMBI USER G 045 : SAX SECTION EXS3

This combi call several programs in several tracks
Some of them are not the right and make the combi sound not as required
For example :
track 4 : prog UG 125 G# Upper Preset
track 5 : prog UG 121 E Upper Preset
track 6 : prog UG 124 G Upper Preset
track 7 : prog UG 014 Dirty White Organ
track 8 : prog UG 117 A lower Preset

This is just an example among a lot of others

I do understand why my Combi UG045 Sax Section sounds like organ and not like sax : these are not the right programs

BUT how can I come back to the original sounds?
How can i load this EXS3 sounds?
How can I load all the sounds I have (Exs1-9 + 17-18 +others coming soon)?

I understand that the program banks are scratched by other BUT I dont understand wht to to to avoid that!

Thanks again
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19naia
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KronosAddict wrote:
Hi,
Thank you for your help

It seems all combis corrupted are Exs3 Combis

For example, one of them is :
COMBI USER G 045 : SAX SECTION EXS3

This combi call several programs in several tracks
Some of them are not the right and make the combi sound not as required
For example :
track 4 : prog UG 125 G# Upper Preset
track 5 : prog UG 121 E Upper Preset
track 6 : prog UG 124 G Upper Preset
track 7 : prog UG 014 Dirty White Organ
track 8 : prog UG 117 A lower Preset

This is just an example among a lot of others

I do understand why my Combi UG045 Sax Section sounds like organ and not like sax : these are not the right programs

BUT how can I come back to the original sounds?
How can i load this EXS3 sounds?
How can I load all the sounds I have (Exs1-9 + 17-18 +others coming soon)?

I understand that the program banks are scratched by other BUT I dont understand wht to to to avoid that!

Thanks again


You have to correct the problem and then save the corrected PCG setup as a PCG save in disk mode. Maybe even give it the name “Correct file” PCG. That will prevent getting lost like this.

I need time to sift through my banks to find what factory bank/s of programs EXs 3 is used in.
But you can do your own experimenting. Go to Disk mode, select your PCG and open to Program files, then select U-E bank and then select “Load”.
After pressing load, read the instruction box and look for where it says “To”. Change that to designation to U-G and then press OK. That should load U-E into U-G bank. You will lose anything in U-G before loading U-E, so be sure you do a PCG file save can afford to lose the old U-G content.
Then try your combis again to see if that works. If not, then try the same process with loading U-D to U-G bank. If that doesn’t work, then try another factory bank with program selections for sax and any other targeted sounds , until you have tried them all.

If none of them work, then that means your original U-G bank content was customized per each program drawn from random factory locations rather than a duplication of an entire factory bank.
The more customized your bank arrangements are, the harder it gets to reconstruct them if you lose them.
Either you have a good memorizing mind or you do the best thing, that is a PCG file save in disk mode everytime you make changes to your banks and slots or after making any edits.

I will need to wait a while before i can dig in and search out which bank/s is/are referencing EXs 3. (off to the beach, what can i say).

It could be more than one bank of programs using an EXs library, so it is not as easy as zeroing in on one and being done. There is going to be some process of elimination and perhaps a chance to get lucky more quickly than never.
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KronosAddict



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES !!!
It's OK now...
All my troubles came because I didnt check where the programs and combis were loaded, after loading programs (or combis) from EXS3 (or any EXS bank)

As you said, it is necessary to choose an empty location.
If not, everything will be erased

All this is 100% obvious and normal... but I just thought Kronos was able to automatically decide to put the new programs in a empty place !!!

So, problem solved
Thanks again for your great help !
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19naia
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KronosAddict wrote:
YES !!!
It's OK now...
All my troubles came because I didnt check where the programs and combis were loaded, after loading programs (or combis) from EXS3 (or any EXS bank)

As you said, it is necessary to choose an empty location.
If not, everything will be erased

All this is 100% obvious and normal... but I just thought Kronos was able to automatically decide to put the new programs in a empty place !!!

So, problem solved
Thanks again for your great help !


Good to hear. Kronos can do things in so many ways but it cannot know the right one for you until you tell kronos which way to do it.

I hope you will make a PCG save now of this correct Combi and Program bank loading. Just go to disk mode and select “Save” and then go to the top right of the screen and press the arrow to drop down the menu... Then select “Save.PCG” from drop down menu, and then select “set all” , then give it a new name before you press “OK”.
This will make a new PCG file so you can load this new one instead of Factory PCG. It will load PreLoad and all with your customized bank selection just they way you made it to be.
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KronosAddict



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I already saved in a new PCG file, no problem with that.
I am very careful now Wink

I have now another question :
I did load a lot of programs and combi
Is it possible to select the programs/combis I need, to delete the others, and then to reorganize the different slots together?

I explain my idea :
for example, I decide to delete programs U_D 112, 114, 116, 118, 120...
So i will have free slots in this numbers for new programs.

If I load a new bank of 10 programs and tell the Kronos to put them in first slot UD112, with "append" option, what will happen ?
the Kronos will delete all previous programs UD113,115,117...until 121 (programs I wanted to keep)
OR
the Kronos will put the 10 new programs only in free slots (UD112, 114, 116, 118, 120, etc)???

Second question :
After deleting several programs, and having free slots (UD112, 114,... 120) and before loading my new bank of 10 programs, is it possible to ask the Kronos to "rearrange" the programs in this bank. I mean to put the remaining programs all together, using the new free slots 112, 114...120, and to create new free slots at the end of the bank (from slot 125 for example)?

Sorry for my poor english, which is not my mother language, and again thank a lot for your kind help ! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that you have your PCG backed up, why not try the appended load of multi selected individual programs to see if it will jump over the UD 123,115 & 117 without overwriting them.
I am not sure how append works in such situations as yours. But with a backup PCG, you have nothing to fear if it does not go the way you hope for.

And the last question you asked is possible but i am not sure if possible in the same way you are describing. In Disk mode, the utility tab page allows a certain amount of copy and paste from one file to the next. You can create a third PCG that has UD banks empty and then copy programs from your previous PCG
ad paste them in the third PCG UD bank. When you have that pasted full of what you want and in the order you want, you can then load the new UD bank only to kronos and then play it to make sure it is correct before saving it as an entire PCG save to overwrite your original PCG. Or if it were me, i would just save it as an entirely new PCG and have 4 PCG files.
Nothing wrong with having 4,5,or 6 PCG files in disk memory. They can be moved to external USB memory to save HD space.

I think the best advice for you is that you look to PCG tools. It is a computer based software made for kronos users who need the kind of bank and slot arrangement flexibility. You can doit on kronos without PCG tool, but if you have a computer with PCG tools, you can do it a lot easier in ways that are beyond what i can describe.

Try posting another topic asking about PCG tools and how it can make things easier or faster for you. I really think PCG tools is what you need. You put so much time and effort here on this thread with me, so you are obviously serious about having PCG flexibility. PCG tools is the serious flexibility tool you need.
I hope you have a laptop. You can view yotube videos demonstrating what PCG tools does.
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KronosAddict



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for late reply, I was really busy.

PCG tools should be very helpful, bit for the moment I do work with a macbook... and I think PCG Tools doesn't work on Mac.
I will try to find an old PC (what's the minimum configuration? RAM? size of HDD? processor chip?...)

Thanks for your kind help
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