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ruifa Full Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 141
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:45 pm Post subject: 2 Gig sampler, true or false? Hmm and loading times?? ;) |
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Hi,
I heard a lot about the rumors of 2gb sampling expansion for the Pa4x.. and i wonder if this is true..?
If yes... can someone tell me which will be the amount of loading time for 2 gb!! ?? maybe it will be unusable if the waiting time to boot is huge...
whats the amount of time for 800mb compressed to Load ?
Best regards to all!
Ruifa |
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karmathanever Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 10393
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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No one knows if this is going to happen yet - if it does I am sure Korg will have thought about that.
Maybe it will come with a pack of "AAA" s _________________ PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------ |
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musiccankill Platinum Member
Joined: 30 May 2010 Posts: 884 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: |
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It is 99% true that this update will come for pa4x ( and not only pa4x )
I say 99% cause i don't have it confirmed from inside the company but from trusted sources (except the musicgear guys).
Well about loading times on boot up nothing will change drastically as what will be loaded into ram will be the same 400mb (there is no more free ram space anyway) that original os and v2 use (compression is actually 2:1 mode so it takes 400mb of ram to support 800mb of samples.The conversion is actually 16 bit samples to 8bit ones with some secret algorithms that allow it to be almost lossless). |
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AntonySharmman Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 3585 Location: Hellas
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:28 pm Post subject: CLARIFICATIONS |
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ruifa wrote: | which will be the amount of loading time for 2 gb ?? |
If they won't involve compression algorithm in users streaming from internal flash rom , then loading time after
the initial samples arrangement , will be as fast as loading factory resources , faster than benchmarks for a full
800 Mb custom sound resources that I've published here :
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110706&sid=b7d464486a4aeb0f6ca79955ae2d9951
This kind of flash Rom streaming was by default applied for all Pa4X factory resources from the birth of Pa4X , so it
was always feasible for them to apply the same feature for custom samples and the only limitation is the managment
of free internal flash Rom since other media (HD) communication USB 2 protocol is too slow for this function !
Another thing that all users seems that have misunderstood ! Internal Ram and Flash Rom are 2 different things !!!
Only Ram is capable in speed to support real time reproduction of samples and user & factory resources share it !
Let's say that flash Rom is like an internal speed data storage SSD that motherboard media can't support via USB 2 !
Custom samples Ram will be always the same , 400 Mb , no hardware upgrade will be needed , if this upgrade will be
finally provided by OS , only the way of saving samples in it will change !
The original streaming mode from SSD that Kronos supports , can handle up to 5 GB of custom samples in 400 Mb Ram
size , therefore in Pa4X , only attack portion of samples will be stored in Ram and the rest portion will be saved and will be
streamed from internal flash Rom , exactly as always happens with Pa4X factory sound resources ...
Hope this helps _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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duby2 Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2002 Posts: 1377 Location: USA Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:29 pm Post subject: os |
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More sampling is great,
I'd like to see karma inside of the PA4x,
or some of the things on the wish list. |
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miden Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 1984 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: os |
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duby2 wrote: | ....
I'd like to see karma inside of the PA4x,
... |
No point in putting it on any list. It simply won't happen!! Korg (Italy) are totally uninterested. |
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ruifa Full Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 141
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Antony,
Thank you a lot for your explanation!
Lets wait and hope this update really arrives
Cheers!
Ruifa |
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mstodola Senior Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 347 Location: Bedford, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Antony, that explains a lot.
Is the new Italian piano also using this format of the attack in Ram and the rest in Flash Memory? You say all the samples use this format in the Pa4x?
Mitch _________________ Pa4x, Oasys 76, K2000, PC3K7, Montage 8, Pa5x |
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AntonySharmman Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 3585 Location: Hellas
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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mstodola wrote: | Is the new Italian piano also using this format of the attack in Ram and the rest in Flash Memory? |
Yep ... not only Fazioli (~ 1.5GB) , but also every single factory sample of 5,1 Gb (V2) that are kept in internal flash rom
(and not HD) , have dropped their attack portion at internal 1Gb Ram (600 + 400 fixed for users samples).
This is actually the innovation of 10 times larger factory library in Pa4X ! In any other case f.e. bigger Ram ,
booting time would be vast under this hardware ... _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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mstodola Senior Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 347 Location: Bedford, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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I understand about the HD. I don't understand using sata to usb for the HD. It's no wonder why saving and loading from the HD is so slow. It explains the issues with the microSD also. The Pa4x problably doesn't like usb chips with more than one partition either. I'll have to look out for that. I mostly use 8Gb and 16Gb usb so I haven't had any problems with my usb.
Thank you for all the information.
Mitch _________________ Pa4x, Oasys 76, K2000, PC3K7, Montage 8, Pa5x |
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AntonySharmman Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 3585 Location: Hellas
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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You still don't get it ... PaSeries motherboard use as media port communication only USB 2.1 packet protocol ,
which is by definition very slow and USB 2 to SATA or mSD converters will not upgrade the non existing speed ,
contrary this convertion will make USB port more slower , that's why the actual front & rear USB 2 ports are
faster than the internal HD !
The mSD is by definition slow plus convertion = wasting of money , I have mentioned many times that a fast
latest USB 3 thumb drive , is always your best solution for Pa media files since HD is only for storage purposes
and do not participate at any system or resources files to get any system speed benefit !
mstodola wrote: | The Pa4x problably doesn't like usb chips with more than one partition either. | Unlike Windows , Pa4X can read a secondary USB fat 32 partition , if was made by the right format !
I have 2 Sundisk 64 & 128 GB with dual partitions and all partitions are visible in Pa4X and work fine !
Hope this helps _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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miden Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2008 Posts: 1984 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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AntonySharmman wrote: | ...I have mentioned many times that a fast
latest USB 3 thumb drive , is always your best solution for Pa media files since HD is only for storage purposes....... |
Not true. A USB 3 thumb drive will ONLY work at full spec (and speed) when connected to a properly configured (including drivers) USB 3 port.
The USB ports on the PA are USB 2 only, hence USB 2 speed is the max you will get. Any other claims of faster speeds are anecdotal and are not suppoprted by the thumb drive makers themselves. |
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AntonySharmman Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 3585 Location: Hellas
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: |
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miden wrote: | Not true. A USB 3 thumb drive will ONLY work at full spec (and speed) when connected to a
properly configured (including drivers) USB 3 port.
The USB ports on the PA are USB 2 only, hence USB 2 speed is the max you will get. Any other claims of
faster speeds are anecdotal and are not suppoprted by the thumb drive makers themselves. |
Absolutely true , sorry but I don't have to note everytime the self-explanatory , like we're talking about of the 90%
of USB 3 thumb drives that are compatible with USB2 protocol , FYI read first all posts and this benchmark
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=110706&sid=b7d464486a4aeb0f6ca79955ae2d9951
before others realize who is actually the anecdote here ! _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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mstodola Senior Member
Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Posts: 347 Location: Bedford, Indiana
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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AntonySharmman wrote: | You still don't get it ... PaSeries motherboard use as media port communication only USB 2.1 packet protocol ,
which is by definition very slow and USB 2 to SATA or mSD converters will not upgrade the non existing speed ,
contrary this convertion will make USB port more slower , that's why the actual front & rear USB 2 ports are
faster than the internal HD !
The mSD is by definition slow plus convertion = wasting of money , I have mentioned many times that a fast
latest USB 3 thumb drive , is always your best solution for Pa media files since HD is only for storage purposes
and do not participate at any system or resources files to get any system speed benefit ! |
You may think I didn't get it. But I did get it. Please, stop trying to start a fight.
AntonySharmman wrote: | Unlike Windows , Pa4X can read a secondary USB fat 32 partition , if was made by the right format !
I have 2 Sundisk 64 & 128 GB with dual partitions and all partitions are visible in Pa4X and work fine !
Hope this helps |
I didn't experience the same thing. I could not see the SD chip at all until I created just one partition. It fixed my problem and I'm satisfied with that. I obviously don't have accesss to all the technical data that you do with the Pa4x, but I am also an electronic engineer and my troubleshooting that led to my being able to see the SD at all, caused me to come to the conclusion I gave.
So how do you get to the second partition? My Pa4x only reads one or none at all.
Mitch _________________ Pa4x, Oasys 76, K2000, PC3K7, Montage 8, Pa5x |
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AntonySharmman Approved Merchant
Joined: 16 Oct 2010 Posts: 3585 Location: Hellas
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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mstodola wrote: | You may think I didn't get it. But I did get it. Please, stop trying to start a fight. |
You probably misunderstood my words like "didn't get it" , no intention to offend you , just trying to help you understand !
Well , I give up , my good intentions look like dust in the wind !
OK guys DIY ... my tutorial is ended. _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook
Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V |
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