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AMS Consolidation

 
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parfaitbeaucoup



Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: AMS Consolidation Reply with quote

Hi there!

I'm realizing that it's much easier to adjust a preset than it is to start from scratch with this board. But one thing that would really help me know what's going on with any given preset is to be able to see all of the AMS routing in one place similar to the Mod Matrix on my Rev2.

I spend so much time trying to find all the instances of SW1 as an AMS source for instance when it would be so much easier if I could just see them all in a list and then adjust them accordingly.

To be more specific, I'm messing with a pad and I like the effect of SW1 – it applies an envelope to the filter and gives the past a nice boost, but unfortunately I need SW1 to drop the octave in this particular combi so I'm trying to switch it over to SW2 but since I can't find all the instances of SW1 as an AMS I seem to be missing it and not achieving the same effect.

Is it possible to just see a list of all the AMS sources?
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1216

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a good one.
AMS is the hardest part to keep track of when deconstructing a sound for whatever reason, and often the reason is to customize it.

I think the AMS situation is not as hard for peopke who have been old fashioned synth programmers from the early days of modern synths.
People who have followed the evolution of synths and followed every parameter added over the years. After 40 years or more, following the evolution of synths and the parameters, all those parameters are not such a huge compilation at the end.

Thats probably the mind of the people who made Kronos AMS this way.

I may have close to 30 years with synths but only the last 10 years have been a crash course on the parameters unde the controls. And i think my past 2 years on Kronos have been a real crash course on getting up to Kronos parameters.

Odd enough, after getting a good handle on Kronos, it was really easy to backtrack to old synths i never had, like the Korg M1 and absolutely know what was going on in there, right from day one. Of course i got the user friendly Korg iM1 for iPad.

Referencing synth evolution, helps me organize my sense of parameters better and then i get a better sense of managing AMS which basically is an alternate control matrix for synth parameters.
Follow the compilation of parameters and AMS will fall right in line with it.
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Mike Conway
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: AMS Consolidation Reply with quote

parfaitbeaucoup wrote:
I'm messing with a pad and I like the effect of SW1 – it applies an envelope to the filter and gives the past a nice boost, but unfortunately I need SW1 to drop the octave in this particular combi so I'm trying to switch it over to SW2 but since I can't find all the instances of SW1 as an AMS I seem to be missing it and not achieving the same effect.


What program is it?
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Liviou2004
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Joined: 20 Feb 2017
Posts: 1150
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: AMS Consolidation Reply with quote

parfaitbeaucoup wrote:
Is it possible to just see a list of all the AMS sources?


I suppose you're speaking about "all AMS sources used in one particular sound (PCG)" and not in general ?

The list of all AMS sources can be seen in Appendix in Parameter's Guide.

But inside one sound, there is no page on Kornos wich summarize all AMS sources and destinations (matrix) used in it.
It would have benn a good job to add in a software, I'm afraid it doesn't exist.
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parfaitbeaucoup



Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bummer! I feel pretty comfortable with the concept, but with an interface as deep as the Kronos, and having only had it for two weeks, I'm easily baffled by sounds I can't trace.

The particular sound I'm looking at is PWM Pad. SW1 as far as my ears can tell applies an envelope to the filter and this is definitely evidenced by the AMS routing.

But, and what makes it extra tough here is there are two EXi's, so double the paramaters and routing, when I switch the instances of SW1 to SW2, I can't replicate the same sound. I continue to run into this issue when trying to adjust the mapping.

For example in another rhodes patch that I stumbled upon and tweaked to my liking the pitch bend adjusts the time of the delay (I think it's reverse delay), which creates a really cool skipping/pitch effect. But it's a little annoying that it happens every time I use the pitch bend. But when trying to map it to the vector joystick instead, I just couldn't get it to replicate the same behavior.

I appreciate your suggestions nonetheless. I guess it's just a matter of getting extremely comfortable with the board and learning to reverse engineer the sounds.
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19naia
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Joined: 29 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately AMS is not so simple but that favors the flexibility kronos allows beyond just matching a Modulation source/control to a parameter.

So matching a Parameter to Vector-Joystick(VJS) or SW 1 or 2, via AMS, is not always the end of setting up AMS.
There is often setting of Intensity and also if AMS mixer is involved, it gets complex with AMS mixer.
Also if you have multiple parameters behind VJS or SW, as you mentioned, it can cloud out a clear hearing on the particular parameter’s modulation you are listening for.

Also when you go from a SW-switch to a knob or joystick, the control behaviours can change the paprameter modulation behaviour. Switches tend to do on/off where you either have zero setting or max setting.
Knobs and joystick can scale through the setting range allowing gradual change over the range that you move the control.
So the choice of source/control over a parameter using AMS, is also going to affect the type of modulation you get out of an AMS setup.

Also SW 1 & 2 are set up in Basic Vector page in the sub tab-page “controllers”. Look to see SW 1 & 2 setup there and look at the part where it says “Toggle” or “Momentary”. Toggle and momentary determine the switch behaviour such as: will it hold the setting when pressed and toggle back and forth each time it is pressed?
Or will it hold a setting momentarly when you press the switch and then go back to original setting when you let go? Rebounding like like joy stick does.
If SW 1 & 2 are not set to the same behaviour setting in controllers page under basic/vector tab, then they cannot always substitute one another with equal performance.

VJS is also a more detailed controller with its own Page of settings that determine how it will work whenever it is used, even in AMS. VJS also has Vector Envelope page to shape its position response as well.
Not quite as simple as Momentary or Toggle setting for VJS behaviour.

AMS is an alternate Control surface assignment matrix that runs in tandem with the main controller assignment matrix that Kronos uses.
There is controller assignment going on in Global mode and then there is controller assignmnet going on in the controller page setup of each program or combi.

And then there is Tone adjust that assigns an extensive range of things to the controls that are not shown as a part of the Basics/Vector controller page. But no worry about tone adjust if you are in SW and VJS controls for AMS.
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Mike Conway
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: AMS Consolidation Reply with quote

parfaitbeaucoup wrote:
I'm messing with a pad and I like the effect of SW1 – it applies an envelope to the filter and gives the past a nice boost, but unfortunately I need SW1 to drop the octave in this particular combi so I'm trying to switch it over to SW2


Why not set SW2 to drop the octave?

Okay, going through the sound:
COMMON MODE -- CONTROLLERS tab. Set SW2 to SW2Mod (CC#81)
EXi1
FILTER -- FILTER MOD tab -- FILTER EG, change SW1 to SW2.
EG -- EG1(Filter) tab -- TIME MODULATION, change 1 to 2
AMS MIXER tab, on AMS Mixer 2 change 1 to 2. (this is for Ribbon)

EXi2
Same settings. Except for this:
OSC/PITCH -- PITCH EG/MODULATION tab -- OSC and SUB OSC PITCH MODULATION. Change 1 to 2.

I would love to click on a controller, such as SW1, and have a pop up window showing SW1 destinations. Would make for a nice update.

As of now, you have to use your ears. Ask yourself, is SW1 affecting:
Pitch Yes
LFO No
Filter Yes
Amp Maybe
EG Maybe

I could tell with this sound that it was affecting filter. But it was also affecting a little bit of EG(filter), as well. EDIT: Yeah Pitch was affected on OSC2.
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