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Help! Piano roll problem

 
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gsquid



Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Help! Piano roll problem Reply with quote

Hi everyone
Great forum. Just joined but been a lurker, like, forever.
Anyway... I'd really appreciate some sneaky advice from some fellow Korg-heads.
I recently upgraded from an M3 to a Kronos LS, and the Kronos' lack of piano roll is becoming an obstacle.
I love the M3's piano roll. The way it's set up with the touch screen is super-intuitive. What I don't want to do it boot up ProTools and start clicking and fiddling with a mouse every time I need to edit a Kronos midi track.
So, I'm thinking...
Is there a way I can record on the Kronos in sequencer mode, port a track to the M3, edit it with its piano roll, then return the midi data to Kronos?
I know this might sound ridiculous, but in my head, it sounds like a promising (and potentially easy) fix.
Am I mad or is this doable?
Any advice/midi connections would be super-appreciated.
Thanks for reading guys (and sorry if you're reading this laughing and shaking your head)
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19naia
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1216

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! Piano roll problem Reply with quote

gsquid wrote:
Hi everyone
Great forum. Just joined but been a lurker, like, forever.
Anyway... I'd really appreciate some sneaky advice from some fellow Korg-heads.
I recently upgraded from an M3 to a Kronos LS, and the Kronos' lack of piano roll is becoming an obstacle.
I love the M3's piano roll. The way it's set up with the touch screen is super-intuitive. What I don't want to do it boot up ProTools and start clicking and fiddling with a mouse every time I need to edit a Kronos midi track.
So, I'm thinking...
Is there a way I can record on the Kronos in sequencer mode, port a track to the M3, edit it with its piano roll, then return the midi data to Kronos?
I know this might sound ridiculous, but in my head, it sounds like a promising (and potentially easy) fix.
Am I mad or is this doable?
Any advice/midi connections would be super-appreciated.
Thanks for reading guys (and sorry if you're reading this laughing and shaking your head)


Standard Midi Files makes this possible. SMF.

“Standard” is the key word. It means midi data is midi data where ever it ends up. One thing for sure is that from one Korg workstation to the other is even better.
If making an SMF is too hard to figure out, you can just record direct to M3 from Kronos.
I do that between kronos and my Boss drum pattern sequencer. And they would seem less compatible as midi sequencers of two different kinds, but it works easily between the two types of sequencers.
Just 8-32 measures of drum pattern sequences for drum patterns in my case, so direct midi recording is a short and easy ordeal.

I don’t think saving a Kronos song and then moving that song file to M3 is going to work, but you can try because i am just guessing the song files are not compatible. The hardware and OS differences would make it so.
Making SMF on kronos will work for files to dump into M3 or elsewhere.

I am also not sure if there will be any gaps in what types of midi data are compatible between the two. But M3 seems advanced enough to cover all the same things found in Kronos Midi event edit.
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GregC
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! Piano roll problem Reply with quote

gsquid wrote:
Hi everyone
Great forum. Just joined but been a lurker, like, forever.
Anyway... I'd really appreciate some sneaky advice from some fellow Korg-heads.
I recently upgraded from an M3 to a Kronos LS, and the Kronos' lack of piano roll is becoming an obstacle.
I love the M3's piano roll. The way it's set up with the touch screen is super-intuitive. What I don't want to do it boot up ProTools and start clicking and fiddling with a mouse every time I need to edit a Kronos midi track.
So, I'm thinking...

1) Is there a way I can record on the Kronos in sequencer mode, port a track to the M3, edit it with its piano roll, then return the midi data to Kronos?
I know this might sound ridiculous, but in my head, it sounds like a promising (and potentially easy) fix.
Am I mad or is this doable?
Any advice/midi connections would be super-appreciated.
Thanks for reading guys (and sorry if you're reading this laughing and shaking your head)


Doesn't sound mad at all. I would try it, assuming your piano roll edits are that important.

I don't know how many midi tracks you typically use in a Song.

If you use 10 or more, I would guess you are going to spend a lot of time, swapping out programs. The K and your M3 don't share the same order or
'location #' of instruments used.

If you simply play acoustic piano on both, that is less work

Let us know how it works for you.
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19naia
Platinum Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 1216

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can always have the midi data moved to M3 and then played back from M3 while M3 plays the coresponding programs on kronos.

Simple Switch back and forth between internal and external, between the two.

Seems like with all that is needed to make it work, it would be better to just use the computer DAW as a sequencer and just use Kronos sequencer as the midi routing and setup for the DAW sequencer to play Kronos programs in combi fashion. And it is even possible to have both internal and external sequencers synced and Karma still able to run in the mix. I use both my sequencers together, internal and external. And have Karma in the mix. Both share the same start stop message that also stops Karma and have foot switch set to start/stop via my external sequencer which has 4 controller insert jacks for up to 4 foot switches or pedals.
DAW should have a better piano roll option also.

Unles you just want M3 for its sounds.
I really think Laptop DAW is better than M3 for use of its sequencer just for piano roll. Maybe more coplex to get DAW all setup to work as you need it.
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gsquid



Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice guys, super appreciated.
I'm not entirely sure how to save a Kronos song track as straight SMF - i.e. no exclusive data such as IFX sends/panning etc. Does anybody know if the option is there for Kronos?

If not, I'm thinking recording from Kronos to M3, editing on piano roll, then porting the Midi data back to the Kronos is my most likely option?
The data I'd be editing would mostly be Rhodes piano and piano. My music is quite sparse/minimalistic so there's nowhere to hide, hence subtle tweaks on piano roll.

This sounds a bit old school but I never use soft synths & find editing midi on computers an unpleasant chore - been playing keys since my first JX3P and I've never found computers remotely intuitive, which is why M3's piano roll was such a godsend. (I use ProTools for the FX compression/EQ/Amplitube plug-ins and final mix down but that's it.)

I'd love a piano roll on the Kronos but also accept this is never gonna happen Sad
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SeedyLee
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Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going through the same thing with my Kronos now as it happens, though in my case I am performing the editing in Cubase 7.5.

Exporting as a MIDI file is probably the easiest way to go about this. If you export to MIDI, import it into the M3, perform your edit, then perform the reverse you should be good to go. One thing to note: when you import the edited MIDI file back to your Kronos, you can safely load the MIDI file into your existing song. In this way, all your audio track, IFX assignments etc are preserved.

Another way of doing the same is simply to record the part you wish to edit in realtime into the M3 sequencer, edit, then record the editing part back into the Kronos.

In my particular situation I am using FTP to transfer the exported MIDI file in Cubase, performing the edit, then loading back in via FTP. It's reasonably seamless. I'm also starting to use Cubase more after I discovered it's actually not bad just as a MIDI sequencer if you don't load it full of VSTs!
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Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One
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