Korg Forums

burningbusch · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:46 pm Post subject:

I've only viewed a few of the new Fantom videos and it's nothing I can see investing in unless there's some way to add 3rd party sample libraries (the only reason I'd invest in something like this).

The instrument seems similar to the Fantom G in basic philosophy. With the G, Roland put a big emphasis on the large screen for internal sequencing, drum pads and even mouse control. I don't believe it sold well at all. The new Fantom seems similar in approach and customer segment targeting. But considering the G came out in 2008, I would have expected much more.

DAW integration is always tough as it's a moving target, especially with Apple products. There are TONS of controllers out there that have promised tight DAW integration and nearly all have come up short in the real world. I suppose NI's NKS is the best (and clearly FAR better than what Roland has done here), but even with NKS I know there are issues. If Roland had created an NKS-compatible controller, that would have been interesting.

I could never see investing up to $4,000 in what is essentially a closed system. When you spend that kind of money you expect a strong expanding library (Nord) or the ability to massively expand with you own/3rd party samples/sounds (Kronos). The Montage came out with limited expandability (and limited sound engines) and was not hugely successful. It was only when the $2,000 MODX hit did people start getting excited about Yamaha. [YES, you can expand the Montage with sounds/samples but compared to the libraries available on the Nord/Kronos, it's very small]. How happy are you going to be with that new Fantom in two years when you're sick of the sounds or are just looking for something more/better? That's OK in the $2,000 price range, but not in the high-end.

Are keyboard manufacturers motivated by others? Apparently not much. What has been the response to the hugely successful Nords? Virtually nothing. Or the Kronos with its multiple engines and streaming sampling? Nothing. This is a relatively small, niche marketplace and the manufacturers design products they feel fit the needs of their customers. They are looking to differentiate, rather than mimic. Whatever Korg has in the works, I doubt it's influenced by this new Roland.

Busch.
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Lightbringer · Senior Member Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 356 Location: USA

First I'll give some props to Roland. I own quite a bit of their gear (keyboards, guitar synths and processors, v-drums) and they make high quality good sounding stuff. They've done their homework here:

1. They created a UI that looks like it was designed sometime during this century.
2. They've studied the competition and created a differentiated product. They've found things that people will want and that Kronos and Montage don't have.

I think they'll get some market share from that.

But I don't see a Kronos killer in the Fantom. From what I've seen the Kronos is far more feature complete at this point. I doubt they'll catch it with updates any time soon. Happy to be wrong about that though.

One thing that's kind of disappointing given that they've completely rebooted the Fantom is that I don't see anything ground-breaking and brand new in it. I see a lot of "best of" tech rolled together:

- Ableton-like clip sequencer
- TR-like step sequencer
- NI Massive-like wavetable LFO
- Tried and true analog filter
- Preset morph from [various software synths]

to name a few examples. But I don't see anything no one's ever done before. Nothing absolutely earth-shakingly new and innovative for $4k.

When I ask myself what musically and sonically could I accomplish with a Fantom that I can't accomplish with my Kronos, nothing much is really coming to mind. If I reverse that question though, the answer changes quite a bit. This is just based on what I've seen in Youtube demos.

So will Korg take notice and have a response? Who knows. Competition is always good. But I'm not going to sell off my Kronos to buy a Fantom at this point. If I were choosing one vs. the other today, K still looks like a clear better value to me. If they drop a major firmware update I'll re-evaluate of course.

burningbusch · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:13 pm Post subject:

Scott · Platinum Member Joined: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 1015

GregC · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:45 pm Post subject:

jimknopf · Platinum Member Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 3374

@scott
Concerning the Jupiters: I don't mind some additional content, as long as I don't find that IN PLACE OF actual synth sounds they have and I would expect to see, but they refuse to put into the Jupiters. I want it exactly the other way round: best of Roland synths - status now. Not a weird mixed bag instead. They can do it like they want. I just won't buy it like that.

And concerning the Jupiter XM (which I might find interesting like you) surface: on a subtractive synth, I always want two ADSR controllers (for filter and amp), and not just one, with switching back and forth. I don't mind, which historic budget synths had that already, or if Behringer put that same one envelope nonsense onto the Deepmind: I simply don't want to use a subtractive synth like that, because the two envelopes are interdependant and should be programmed interdependant on the fly. I clearly would have ditched other elements on the surface, or found some solution, just to preserve the two envelopes.
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Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

Scott · Platinum Member Joined: 16 Oct 2009 Posts: 1015

GregC · Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:22 pm Post subject:

In case anyone likes to plan, and consider what Korg might do in the premium
synthesizer keyboard space, I have some opinions.

1)Don't expect a workstation. The dividing lines between this term and other types of premium boards has been blurred.

2) I am guessing Korg has been working on a new concept product.

3) Assigning some probability to ' when ' such a expensive product will be announced;

60% chance by NAMM 2020
40% chance further out

And we will see in a few months. I have no inside info, not even a dust particle.
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Achieve your musical dreams Smile

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KK · Platinum Member Joined: 13 Oct 2016 Posts: 1422

GregC · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:58 am Post subject:

burningbusch · Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:33 am Post subject:

KK · Platinum Member Joined: 13 Oct 2016 Posts: 1422

theshinenz · Full Member Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Posts: 240

Kevbo · Joined: 03 Mar 2019 Posts: 40

I think the best of both worlds would be a Kronos 88 and a new Roland Fantom -76 for the synth action. MIDI those two up, and you've got all you need for home studio and gigging (though that's a lot of weight to throw around). Smile

I really liked the Fantom G when it came out years ago, but didn't have the money back then to purchase one. Coincidentally, I was looking online to purchase a Roland G7, but there are NONE for sale. BUMMER! Then I see Roland just released the new Fantom. I had no idea it was even in the works.

I think the screen is bigger on the Fantom G than this new one, but I'm not entirely sure. However, unless Roland decided to record many of their instruments, I haven't been too impressed with their acoustic instruments. I like to record instrumental/orchestral music, and Kronos still seems to be leading on those...next to the VSTs that I like to use.