Korg Forums

[leonh]

Well I played for 30 min so in that time I found that arpeggios are ok i.e standard not like Kronos or Montage .
Sequencer well it is very good with patterns and loops something like Akai force as for linear sequencer I did play a bit and it seems that is as good as Kronos one (mind you I played a bit ) measures I did try 32 did not try 128 so I dont know but overall it looks like with sequencer you can mix everything .Mixer is good voice controls are plenty think of it as a Montage and Kronos hybrid very good for all in one workstation loading time about 30 sec you need to play it for a day or two because are so many things especially with sequencer it looks very deep personaly I am thinking of getting one by Christmas .I think it can replace Montage and Kronos if you need only one keyboard not two.

[Koekepan]

I'm trying to reconcile what you've been saying, and I have Roland's manuals open in PDF format.

There's no mention of linear sequencing that I can find. At all. In fact, it explicitly says that everything is broken down into patterns, of up to 32 measures maximum. In other words, groovebox style sequencing. This is confirmed in their reference manual on page 85, where they explain the song production workflow. Verbatim: "To create a song on the FANTOM, begin by creating patterns which are the smallest structural unit of the song, then combine multiple patterns to create groups, and finally place multiple groups in a desired order to complete a song."

There's no exception described about linear sequencing at all.

I also can't find anything about audio tracks. At best, it seems to be aimed at inserting samples into a track, but there's no equivalent that I can find of the audio tracks in the Kronos.

So, if you found anything beyond those, it's a huge revelation and a major new entrant into the scene. Otherwise it appears to be, as I said above, rather like a sampling groovebox with a synth engine and a keyboard. The arranger view seems to be limited to this pattern/group thing, which is even less flexible than Caustic has. (Not a knock on Caustic, by the way. For what it is, it's brilliant.)

More of a performance sequencer than a workstation, really. Which is basically what a groovebox is.

[Jan1]

I don't know what they were thinking at Roland's headquarters when they decided to implement a limited pattern sequencer in the new Fantom flagship with only two time signatures to choose from and very limited editing options.

Roland forces you to adapt your creative process to their pattern based vision where KORG gives you the freedom to choose.
You want to work in the traditional linear way? Go ahead.
You want to work with repeating patterns? No problem.
But with the Fantom you do not have this choice.
Dave Brubeck could not have used the Fantom's sequencer to record his 'Take Five', and the same is true for a composer like Frank Zappa and the time signatures he used.

When it comes to DAW integration, I don't use a Mac, so the Logic/Mainstage integration, as nice as it is, is of no use to me.

So, what's left for me to use are the sounds, and the usable sounds are limited to synth patches since the acoustic emulations currently stem from the nineties era, a few PCM waveforms representing an emulation.
And there's the V-piano of course.
Both the piano and the synth sounds are done very well, I have heard some stellar patches on the Fantom, and the synth engine gives you a lot of options for sound design.
And the workflow is fast and intuitive with a GUI that leaves the KRONOS trailing behind.

I'm not counting the sampler (wav player), nice for live performance, but it's not a proper sampler.

When it comes to workstation capabilities it leaves much to be desired.
A very limited pattern sequencer, no audio tracks, no multi-sampling, no good acoustic instruments emulations, no dedicated organ, no integration with DAWs other than Logic.

So I have to come up with close to 4000 Euros for a Fantom 8 performance synth+, because that is really what it is to me right now.

If Roland follows through with future updates then it becomes a different story, but at the moment it does not qualify as a proper workstation IMO.
Still, I love the sound quality of the Fantom and some of the patches I have heard are very inspiring, so if Roland really delivers the goods I can see myself getting one, but it totally depends on the kind of updates Roland will come up with.

And of course, we don't know what KORG will bring us next NAMM, it could very well overshadow all the others and once again establish KORG's reputation of being the king of workstations.

[Scott]

To Roland's credit, then, they don't call it a workstation.

High end keyboards don't have to be workstations... see Nord Stage 3 or Prophet X.

[Jan1]

[Koekepan]

[leonh]

I agree I guess I missed it no linear sequencer to short time to find everything saying that I still think it is a workstation if that means you can make song from schratch without anything else maybe there is a reason that there is no new Kronos because most of the younger generation of musicians use pattern and loop based production and that Montage included only pattern sequencer and if you want linear recording Cubase will beat all hardware workstations for much less money .So I think that Roland did not include it on purpose I dont think it would cost anything to include it question is why maybe their target customer base is not guys like us who in my case started with M1.

[Scott]

[Koekepan]

[leonh]

Yes price is over the top I said to the shop owner it will be interesting to me when price drops to 2500£ for 61 keys Kurzweil is getting old still good but old how many young musicians (not giging ones) buy that Mpc live and MPC X are good but no keyboard you forgot Akai Force so Roland is trying to get those musicians to the board lets be realistic if you ever did music with above groove machines and samplers neither Kronos or Montage is appealing but familiar grove machine with patterns samples and step sequencer with keyboard included that would be interesting so basically Roland is not competing with Kronos I think they want slice of other market .

[leonh]

https://youtu.be/LW5PNtaxrUo

Here is Roland sequencer explained in detail

[maphill]

So I have a Fantom 6 sitting over the Kronos now.

Here's the short of it:

Some of the sounds are really good, but overall I don't think the engines compare (yet?) to the Kronos.
I've only played with V-Piano a little but it doesn't seem super realistic to me. Flexible, though.
The controls are far better than the Kronos on average. Especially the rotary encoders in the mixer section and the encoder/buttons under the screen. Very nice. I love the light encoders around encoders and the sliders.
The GUI is easier to use. More streamlined for better and occasionally for worse (less powerful).
The effects are not as powerful.
I like the pads for backing tracks.
I haven't used the Mainstage integration, but if I keep the keyboard longterm I probably will and it looks slick.
It's obvious the Fantom is fresh out of the design process... and that there is work to be done. I'm sure the obvious things will get done. Curious to see if they add more sounds/engines/features as they are implying.
While not as powerful as the Kronos, I think Roland is on to something with workflow for the strong majority of users.

I think what I really want is something with the flexible effects and power of the Kronos in a package with the controls of the Fantom. I'm considering returning, but having a hard time with the decision. I want a powerful keyboard for weekly performance in the church band and my Kronos is too heavy for portage. Maybe I'll buy a 61-key Kronos instead. Maybe I'll keep waiting for the "next Kronos".

-Mark
_________________
Korg KRONOS 73, Trinity Pro, Monotron,
Roland FA-06 and Fantom 6, Roland TDK-15
Big Knob, Sonar (Previously, OASYS 76)

[GregC]

I am very interested in Fantom. For my $4000, I am waiting for Jan NAMM.

If Korg does something [ finally ] in this premium keyboard niche, the entire comparison process starts all over again.

As of today, Kronos + Fantom does sound like a powerful combination.

I watched a video on Fantom as a midi controller and that feature is impressive.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994

[Koekepan]

At this rate I'm idly wondering whether Behringer's teased W mightn't be a workstation.

I mean, why not? Everyone else is pretending to have not-quite-workstations, why not the big B?

[GregC]