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burningbusch
Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| HardSync wrote: |
Anyone know if Dan P. was involved in the design of the Wavestate? |
Interview with Dan here:
https://www.musiciansfriend.com/thehub/korg-wavestate-synthesizer-announced
Busch.
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Kronos 73, Nautilus 61, Vox Continental 73, Monologue, Yamaha Montage 8, Rhodes Suitcase, Yamaha VL-1, Roland V-Synth, Yamaha AvantGrand, Minimoog Model D, Studio Electronics Omega 8, CSS, Spitfire, VSL, LASS, Sample Modeling, Ivory, Komplete 12, Spectrasonics, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.
http://www.purgatorycreek.com |
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Narioso
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Kevin Nolan wrote: | Good to see Korg, finally, addressing their legacy, and moving it forward.
That said, I have to be honest - I've watched the videos, and downloaded the manual, and - I dont' get the point to this instrument. It seems like a hodge-podge of Wavestation, Minilogue and Electribe. the user interface is horrendous - nothing is obvious.
And - 37 keys ?? What the hell is going on in the heads of who designed this??
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The fundamentals for me making sounds - is to have enough room and simple save procedure to intermediate saves. Every synth worth having needs that.
So Wavestate - they probably have 100 MB or so left over from samples in flash memory and can use that for presets of various sorts. No limit - even state 10 000 or so.
So do shift write - and it save as new - no questions asked.
So you can do reusable modules from program save, waves sequence save, sequence lanes save apart from performance save which are complete.
Yes, seems a lot of planning and menu diving - but just exploring is part of the fun.
And the randomize thingy for parameters - even at very high level - can make accidents happend that you never thought of. Like it - save as new - don't like it, have a go again.
I probably won't spend as much time with Wavestate as Nordlead 2X or Prologue - they being so hands on for everything, even Prologue is clever in menu stuff through button navigation which I find works really well.
But for some things that I tried with DeepMind using modulation matrix even the control sequencer - it's limiting with one part.
To make a pad with something else bubbling beneath - very simple to do with Wavestate. Second layer with sequence and done.
I'm not a gigging musician - but just love exploring sounds which in turn inspire to make music of what you hear. It's the same with all instruments, guitars and find that sweet spot or a beat etc.
So as a tool I think Wavestate has a role anywhere. And very affordable too - compared to workstations.
About 37 keys - nice they left mini keys - and get fewer keys but full size.
If you are gigging aren't you really using a workstation as master keyboard rather than each unit by itself???
I would rather look at is as a midi module. Easy to tuck away, I think.
I think Korg did it again - extend what we could do earlier....
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MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
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Narioso
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| burningbusch wrote: | Kind of funny that Korg can put 6GB of samples in the $800 Wavestate, while Yamaha, Roland, and Nord struggle to provide that much in their $3,000 - $5,000 flagships.
Busch |
Yes and cleverly used what was left of that memory to do 10 000 or more saves of your own presets - no worry to have room at all.
Do shift write - and you save as new.
While Roland struggle with 64 presets on System-8 and similar. That would last me 2 hours before filled up with intermediate saves. And even using sd card to do backup - you don't have partial back and forth of selected banks.
Roland does not have a clue about creativity....
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MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
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HardSync
Platinum Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| CharlesFerraro wrote: |
Yeah Dan decided all of the specs on the unit. For example he could crack his whip and say, “give it four LFO’s” and a team of coders would get right on it. |
Thank you, both. That's really good to know. Glad he was involved with this, because it wouldn't seem right at all if he wasn't.
If I had known the Wavestate was coming out, I may have held off getting a Hydrasynth. And while I don't need a three-octave keyboard, the price point of this is pretty amazing (way, way cheaper than the Wavestations were) and I'd really like to pair up those two synths. All of the Wavestate demos sound fantastic as well. I suppose I could sell off some unused gear, as you do... :) |
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Mr_SamDoogie
Full Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 239
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Not blown out of my socks with the wavestate in its own right it's just like the Roland XM. I see them as appetizers, synths like the Hydra are remarkable edgy crisp waves fresh out the market.
No it's early and knowing Korg holding back got my synth spotting glasses on and quietly wait.
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In honor of the Groove and to all whom surrender to it, We say Thank You. And we take it Back.
Korg MW1, Casio PX5S & XW-G1, Roland JD-Xi,Yamaha Montage 7, Roland D-05, Bass Station II, Cubase Elements, Sonar X3 Producer.Handfull of IOs Apps iMPC,Animoog : Korg IMS-20,Module, IM1, Gadget etc. |
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Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| HardSync wrote: | | CharlesFerraro wrote: |
Yeah Dan decided all of the specs on the unit. For example he could crack his whip and say, “give it four LFO’s” and a team of coders would get right on it. |
Thank you, both. That's really good to know. Glad he was involved with this, because it wouldn't seem right at all if he wasn't.
If I had known the Wavestate was coming out, I may have held off getting a Hydrasynth. And while I don't need a three-octave keyboard, the price point of this is pretty amazing (way, way cheaper than the Wavestations were) and I'd really like to pair up those two synths. All of the Wavestate demos sound fantastic as well. I suppose I could sell off some unused gear, as you do...  |
After seeing some more demos my enthusiasm for the Wavestate only has increased, and KORG attached such a very friendly pricetag that I find it irresistable. |
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danatkorg
Product Manager, Korg R&D
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 4204
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Liviou2004 wrote: | | Almost all parts of this Wavestate are coming from old concepts and Oasys could already do the same 14 years ago !! |
and
| Liviou2004 wrote: | Sorry but I don't see any enchancement from HD-1. As you can stack several wavesequences, (in particular in Combi mode) each one with its own rythm pattern, modulate each start point as you wish, creating random triggers in GATE mode with Karma, etc...I don't see where could be the enhancement.
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It's really very different.
You can make something like a Kronos Wave Sequence on the Wavestate by making every Lane have the same number of steps, same start/end/loop start/loop end/loop direction/number of repeats etc. But, the whole point of Wave Sequencing 2.0 is that the Lanes can shift and phase against each other. This isn't like shifting or phasing just the Wave Sequence as a whole; it's about the different parameters matching up in different ways each time the Wave Sequence advances, for each different note.
See this graphic:
Remember that this only shows three of the Lanes, and only one parameter for each lane, for a single note, without any modulation. The Timing Lane loops forwards, from steps 1 to 4. The Sample Lane loops back and forth, between steps 2 and 7. The Pitch Lane loops backwards, from step 5 to step 3. The colors of each step are matched to the step number.
When we look at them when combined into the output, as shown in the bottom half of the graphic, the output is the same as a Kronos-like Wave Sequence through step 4; notice that all the colors are the same for each of the Lanes. At step 5, the Timing Lane is already looping, while the Pitch and Sample Lanes are still producing additional values; this is where Wave Sequencing 2.0 has kicked in. At the next step, all three Lanes have diverged.
So, for example, the first time that the Voice sample plays, it's a 1/16th note with a pitch of Eb. The second time it plays, it's a 1/4 note with a pitch of F. As the note continues to play, the different characteristics roll over one another, creating complex, non-repetitive results. Also keep in mind that this is all very simplified; the graphic shows only three lanes, only one parameter per lane, no modulation or probability, etc.
Btw, I'll add for those unfamiliar with Wave Sequencing that the Timing Lane doesn't have to be rhythmic; it can also create smooth crossfades - and on the wavestate the speed itself can be modulated, again on a per-note basis by LFOs, envelopes, etc.
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Dan Phillips
Manager of Product Development, Korg R&D
Personal website: www.danphillips.com
For technical support, please contact your Korg Distributor: http://www.korg.co.jp/English/Distributors/
Regretfully, I cannot offer technical support directly.
If you need to contact me for purposes other than technical support, please do not send PMs; instead, send email to dan@korgrd.com |
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megamarkd
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Posts: 635
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:59 am Post subject: |
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Woohoo! This is great news. 64 voices!! ♫♪ And the world will be a better place ♪♫
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Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago (the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here |
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flyweight
Joined: 09 Jan 2020
Posts: 5
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:12 am Post subject: |
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OMG 2020 and no sample loading.....
I mean the Wavestate sounds great, really great.
I also know users are lazy bastards... But why do I have all this mics, audiotranduces, intsruments etc??
Korg please implement sample loading ( multisamples ).
Looks like they use 1 sample for the whole keyrange and use a spectral algorithm against the aliasing.
... |
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burningbusch
Approved Merchant
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1203
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| flyweight wrote: |
Looks like they use 1 sample for the whole keyrange and use a spectral algorithm against the aliasing.
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NO, they use multi-samples.
Busch.
_________________
Kronos 73, Nautilus 61, Vox Continental 73, Monologue, Yamaha Montage 8, Rhodes Suitcase, Yamaha VL-1, Roland V-Synth, Yamaha AvantGrand, Minimoog Model D, Studio Electronics Omega 8, CSS, Spitfire, VSL, LASS, Sample Modeling, Ivory, Komplete 12, Spectrasonics, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.
http://www.purgatorycreek.com |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Poseidon wrote: | | Bachus wrote: | | Poseidon wrote: | | Wavestate should have 49-keys. Bare minimum ! |
I disagree, a solo synth works well with 37 keys..
Never heared anyone complaining about the model D..
Its a keyboard meant to be used on top/next to another keyboard like the kronos.. |
You know that original Korg Wavestation was 61-key, and 32 polyphony.
Here we have 64-polyphony and 37-key.
I don't see it entirely as a solo synth, that's were my statament comes from.
For me 49-keys is a must for this synth. |
I don't get the keyboard size. Then again, Korg knows their biggest target audience.
In my perfect world, this should be desk top with a larger LCD.
That might fit on my Kronos 88 chassis.
I think this unit had midi in/out and USB out.
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Poseidon
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| GregC wrote: | | Poseidon wrote: | | Bachus wrote: | | Poseidon wrote: | | Wavestate should have 49-keys. Bare minimum ! |
I disagree, a solo synth works well with 37 keys..
Never heared anyone complaining about the model D..
Its a keyboard meant to be used on top/next to another keyboard like the kronos.. |
You know that original Korg Wavestation was 61-key, and 32 polyphony.
Here we have 64-polyphony and 37-key.
I don't see it entirely as a solo synth, that's were my statament comes from.
For me 49-keys is a must for this synth. |
I don't get the keyboard size. Then again, Korg knows their biggest target audience.
In my perfect world, this should be desk top with a larger LCD.
That might fit on my Kronos 88 chassis.
I think this unit had midi in/out and USB out. |
Wavestate should be released in 2 variants:
1. Desktop module ( = Korg knows their biggest target audience )
2. keyboard (say 49-keys) for the rest.
I have seen some demo, and the player clearly was constrained by 37-keys.
Another trend that worry me is these days anyone can play with one finger. |
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Trinity2112
Platinum Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 579
Location: Delaware, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Poseidon wrote: | | Another trend that worry me is these days anyone can play with one finger. |
why’s that???
_________________
Current Korg Lineup: Kronos 61, Oasys 76 · M3-61/RADIAS · Trinity Plus/HDR · 01/WFD · 01R/W · X3R · M3R · Wavestation EX · Wavestation SR · Triton Rack/MOSS · Z1EX · TR-Rack · Karma · D3200 · iM1 · iWavestation · iMono/Poly
Other Synths: Berhinger Deepmind 12 · iProphet · Moog Model D
Dearly departed: X3 |
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Poseidon
Senior Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Trinity2112 wrote: | | Poseidon wrote: | | Another trend that worry me is these days anyone can play with one finger. |
why’s that??? |
I am not sure how to explain it to you.
The sound of music is a language.
Take in your hands a bamboo flute, and when you master it, you can truly speak, mirror your feelings with a sound. You have a total control over not only a root note, but what’s next, and how it is spoken precisely.
Image replacing birds with machine.
And it's a skill as well. Playing with one finger is not.
Modern music too often lacks the soul. |
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Lightbringer
Senior Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 356
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Poseidon wrote: |
I am not sure how to explain it to you.
The sound of music is a language.
Take in your hands a bamboo flute, and when you master it, you can truly speak, mirror your feelings with a sound. You have a total control over not only a root note, but what’s next, and how it is spoken precisely.
Image replacing birds with machine.
And it's a skill as well. Playing with one finger is not.
Modern music too often lacks the soul. |
I agree with what you're saying but, to one-finger the wavestate on its factory presets would be kind of missing the point of this synth, I think. All those tactile performance controls, the one touch access to parameters - this is a sound designer synth and a performance synth.
While I think someone with little musical skill could use this to crank out canned music, it could be a powerful tool in the hands of a skilled musician. You could make similar statements about Karma, I suppose. |
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