Korg Forums

[steve350]

I am not stupid and going to lose money to go back to the Pa3. I am just saying I fell victim to the hype of the better this and better that, and It's all marketing BS. My 4 is not worth thousands of dollars more than my 3, that's all I am saying. It's my fault, no one else. I bought the hype now I have to live with it. But I won't get fooled again with a Pa5 or Pa6, it's the same BS in a new box. I'm stuck with my pa4 so end of story. I am glad you all love your Pa4 but I am telling you it is all BS. You don't get the bang for your buck. Again, I blame no one else but me, I fell for it. If you have a Pa3 and are thinking of going to a Pa4, be real careful.

[worth]

I understand your position Steve . I bought my pa1x 14 years ago and was not tempted by either the 2x or 3x as I too did not consider the upgrade from my 1x was worth the extra cost . I love my pa1x and the 4x has pushed me other then top as a musician . The next iteration is unlikely to tempt me unless the sounds and features are far and away better than what I have now which is highly unlikely.

[pawlikp100]

[Fransman]

[steve350]

I respect everyone on this forum. You all have been very supportive when I've had questions. etc. All I am saying is that for my ears, I don't hear thousands of $'s of improvements. This is ALL on me no one else. I wish there was a music store that had the 4 before I purchased it. If so, I probably would have stayed with my 3.

[siebenhirter]

[Bachus]

Its been over a year now since people reported a pa4x follow prototype, up in the korg factory, which was In the proces of sound design..

I would have bet my left ankle that Korg aimed to release it at musikesse 2020..

But with the Corona that might be much later...

But with the i3 around, there are signs what direction korg might be going...
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net

[D575]

Hi Bachus...how do you envision this... (quote: "But with the i3 around, there are signs what direction korg might be going...")
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

[Bachus]

[karmathanever]

Personally, if there were more buttons then (for me) they would have to have useful specific performance functions.
If the next PA ends up like a Kronos (or typical workstation) then it will not be for me.
I personally think the PA4X has the best control surface of any arranger - excellent for performing and recording.
Lots more programmable buttons/pads/sliders would turn it into a workstation (which it is not).

The PA4X control surface is one of many features that positions it well above any other arranger.

Korg - please don't end up with a hybrid arranger/workstation.....

Just my personal opinion

Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
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[D575]

I would guess they are at the advanced stage of pre release by now so from a hardware perpective this will be a fixed position...
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

[Musicwithharry]

I am not sure what to think about the PA4X, since I have the PA700. Before that, I did have a PA500 for a time but never really got into it. I used Roland arrangers before jumping solely back onto the Korg ship for arrangers. I am glad I did. Yamaha was too expensive. Roland is too dated. Aside from the offerings from Ketron, I see little competition for Korg.

I think that they got it right with the current PA series, and in my case, the PA700.

I, personally, would LOVE to see more workstation features in a future PA series offering. In particular, I would love to see a more comprehensive MIDI implementation (layering multiple tracks onto a single MIDI channel (similar to their workstation system)). I have a lot of success with the Korg Kross and M50 in this regard. Leaving each MIDI track to a single channel kind of defeats the layering aspect in a sequence - at least for me.

I would also LOVE to see KARMA implemented in an arranger. Yes, some may see it as overkill (since there are already style tracks), but imagine the possibilities of having KARMA running, in realtime, over style tracks... I would wholeheartedly welcome that addition. In my opinion, it would open up the PA Series to a whole new world of music writing.

Being able to store more than one sequence at a time in memory would be neat too.

Keep in mind that I am coming from this from the view of what the PA700 offers. I do not use KAOSS at all in my original music writing and only use it for ONE SONG in my band. To me, it does not offer much in the way of functionality. I get more mileage out of using the ARP features in my M50 than I do KAOSS. Maybe it is me...

I think that a hybrid would be neat, and Korg certainly has the tech to make it happen.

I have read reviews on the Kronos and some of the reviews have talked about how KARMA can almost make the Kronos into an arranger - emphasis being on the 'almost' wording. Why not make the extra jump and have a model that actually DOES arranging, with styles, but with the functionality of a workstation.

I would also love to see peripheral support for the PA Series. Being able to hook up a mouse/keyboard to it would also be neat. It would also give the unit the ability to act as a centerpiece of a studio. The video out is neat, but is limited, at least in my opinion. Allowing for global touch screen compatibility would be cool too. This would further the 'centerpiece' mode for the unit.

With the above said, how much would it cost? I would not see a problem with a $3k-$4k price range if it had all of those features. It would certainly be the price of admission and I bet it would attract a whole new set of users. Granted, some of those users may be from the current workstation demographic, but they would still get sales.

With my first statement about being firmly in the Korg camp, I am intrigued by the Ketron offerings; particularly the Audya and SD7/9 units. They have a lot of neat stuff and sound really good (largely due to their live guitars and drums stuff for style playback). I would have to think LONG and HARD before adding a non-Korg unit into my studio though.

Even Medeli has an upcoming workstation called the AKX-10. I am not endorsing them at all, really, but if the specs on it are really true, it looks to be rather impressive. Reviews of it online (there are only a few) show that it is eerily similar to the Yamaha PSR-SX, but with older sound tech. That may be a deal breaker. The price of this unit is supposed to be around $800 USD. Not bad considering what the specs say. Of course, we all know about Medeli and their mediocre sounds/tech, but even they have stepped up their game, in the name of competition. I digress...

I hope that all are safe and healthy during this time of world-wide pandemic.

Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC

[karmathanever]

[Korghelper]

I think there's always a disconnect when evaluating the 'value' of going from one model arranger to its immediate successor...

Personally, I always think that unless there is a RADICAL change in the basic sound engine, in the basic style engine, in the voice and effects architecture, there is always going to be a reasonable opinion that it's 'not enough' value to make the switch. And for some, that is quite correct. For others, 'incremental' improvements are sufficient, especially if they have babied their older arranger and can recoup perhaps half the new cost by selling it used.

This makes the new arranger effectively half price, and therefore the incremental change is relatively cheap.

But it's a pretty fair opinion that the PA4X is an 'incremental' model change. Korg have mined the venerable Triton engine and effects architecture for about as long as it can possibly go. There doesn't appear to be any horsepower to spare to add things like a big increase in polyphony, or number of effects inserts that could radically improve the user experience, and the creaking of the sampler engine is starting to show an endgame, having all kinds of problems dealing with large sample numbers, etc..

Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's time for Korg to do a complete reboot.

New sound engine (Kronos based?), totally new effects architecture (Korg can't afford to let Yamaha one-up them in such a massive way), totally ground-up redesign of the sampler architecture, realtime timestretching of audio, integrated audio and MIDI playback.

Then there are improvements to the style engine crying out to be implemented... Velocity offsets of style Parts (play harder, style plays harder), Fill-to-Same simple 'pickup' fills that are less busy than full fills, more fills (six works very smoothly on BK series Roland's), more Intro/Endings, easier paring down of complex styles to rhythm section only and back, better voice leading on Guitar Mode, better full Pianostyle chord following (Roland's 'five notes before a new chord with sustain down, three with it up' system is a gamechanger), and the integration of NEXT's variable swing factor into the basic style controls would ALL be very welcome.

In fact, there are some splendid thing's NEXT can do to a style, from the aforementioned variable swing to style complexity and variety that would be better if integrated into 'normal' style operation rather than tucked away into the X-Y pad system they now have. Many of us remember the old arrangers and their .swing factor' buttons and buttons for increasing and decreasing style complexity. Time for those useful functions to reappear...

Then there's Yamaha's eight part Chord Sequencer. The CS taken to its logical (and useful) conclusion. Copy that!

Until this happens, I think we are always going to see the endless debate about whether upgrading one model step is 'worth it'. But Korg have the opportunity (and the current technology) to make the next PA arranger 'worth it' to absolutely everybody. Will they? The last few incremental upgrades don't seem to hold out much promise. But as improvements become more and more small, as there is a legitimate point in saying it's getting harder and harder to actually hear these smaller and smaller improvements, a bold step by Korg becomes more and more needed.

I for one would love to see a model finally come out that there is no debate about whether it is 'worth it'!

[karmathanever]