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D575
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Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1195
Location: UK (Dorset)
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 Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Korghelper wrote: | You are screwed if Korg follow Roland's approach...
They have basically stopped developing arrangers..! |
I was not suggesting Korg are going to stop arrangers... on the contrary but more a general observation and direction which Korg may (like Roland) or may not go... but of course Roland have not included arrangers in this New Sound Engine ethos at precent... So in this instance where we see differences say how a PA4X and Kronos achieve things like "solo articulations" would be somthing to take into consideration in this Hypothetical new scenario where a New Sound Engine could be shared and cover all the necessary details across different product Lines including arrangers to satisfy all users.
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H Mixer : |
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Bachus
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Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| D575 wrote: | | Korghelper wrote: | You are screwed if Korg follow Roland's approach...
They have basically stopped developing arrangers..! |
I was not suggesting Korg are going to stop arrangers... on the contrary but more a general observation and direction which Korg may (like Roland) or may not go... but of course Roland have not included arrangers in this New Sound Engine ethos at precent... So in this instance where we see differences say how a PA4X and Kronos achieve things like "solo articulations" would be somthing to take into consideration in this Hypothetical new scenario where a New Sound Engine could be shared and cover all the necessary details across different product Lines including arrangers to satisfy all users. |
Well, we didn’t expect a Fantom from Roland, and yet it came..
You never what to expect from Roland..
They might even add some arranger like options to their Fantom
I think the sound engine of the Pa4X is quite powerfull as is..
If they could add new oscilators like VA oscilators and wavetable oscilators... and other tools to the current engine.. make it 96khz and 24bit...
And where it comes to arranger things...Korg should definately have a look at the launchpads feature from Ketron.
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Keymn
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Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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I had some thoughts on this. The PaManager can now convert to older arranger models. Right now I am finishing up my setup on pa1000. Going to see how the PA3x reacts when I load factory and user banks from 1000.
Convert Pa4x preload to PA3x? Hmmm? |
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Since it's almost a Year (10July) without any pa4x's news from Korg or Paolo,i just wish Korg will move forward after they fix some major bugs that still exist on v.3.1 ,otherwise i believe they will start selling their next flagship for good after they fix all it's bugs,that means (around 2026) .
So,it's better for all ,not leaving pa4x or any other keyboard full of bugs before they go on.....
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I admit that I don't do much sampling currently, but do use just about everything else on my PA4X and so far, with 3.1, I have not encountered any problems or bugs.
Right now my PA4X is as stable as my PA3X was.
What am I doing wrong? I feel left out being bug-free 
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I believe it's a ''just because you didn't see,doesn't mean they don't exist'' thing.
a simple bug is that if you wanna assign a layer on aftertouch ,you simply can't anymore.It was working with version 2.2,it is working on pa3x,but not on pa4x anymore.
Just chose a sound,let's say ''Mute Trumpet'' (121.005.059).
create a new layer or copy,and try Osc Trigger mode for that layer.
Chose mode ''Aftertouch - Normal'' or legato or whatever.....Does it work ?
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Korghelper
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 584
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bachus wrote: | Well, we didn’t expect a Fantom from Roland, and yet it came..
You never what to expect from Roland..
They might even add some arranger like options to their Fantom
I think the sound engine of the Pa4X is quite powerfull as is..
If they could add new oscilators like VA oscilators and wavetable oscilators... and other tools to the current engine.. make it 96khz and 24bit...
And where it comes to arranger things...Korg should definately have a look at the launchpads feature from Ketron. |
Actually, the Fantom isn’t really a Fantom. It has the same name but an utterly different kind of keyboard, largely moving away from being a rompler workstation and morphing into a synth workstation.
The vast majority of Roland’s innovation lately has been in synth technology which is pretty low value to the arranger demographic, then leveraging old technology and sounds in a software fashion. We already GOT their legacy rompler tech in arranger form (if you have a BK or E/G series arranger).
Modern music has changed. For 30+ years, modern music relied on arpeggiators and loops, and despite what many who can’t hear the difference here will try to tell you, those sound completely different to arranger algorithms. Roland appear to be the first to leave the sinking ship and concentrate 100% on the types of music that have dominated pop for the last 30 years.
Anyone that saw how home organs eventually faded away and became arrangers over the 70’s to the 80’s knows how change is often slow and some companies recognize the trends faster than others. And Roland were one of the first to all but abandon organs and embrace arrangers.
History repeats itself... |
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:00 pm Post subject: Korg arranger in the near future |
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| korg1 wrote: | | I believe it's a ''just because you didn't see,doesn't mean they don't exist'' thing.. |
This is the main problem with forum discussions about unresolved bugs. At least it is a good step forward here if a user at least confirms that he has never noticed the bug mentioned, but only because he does not use that feature where that bug could occur.
| korg1 wrote: | | ..a simple bug is that if you wanna assign a layer on aftertouch, you simply can't anymore ... |
I would have expected numerous reactions to whether the use of multiple oscillators with the assignment of 1st / 2nd Osc trigger modes (Aftertouch, Natural Release, Normal, Legato et) works satisfactorily or not.
I share the opinion to leave Pa4x/1000/700 should not go on with keyboards full of bugs before starting the sale of the next model, otherwise you would have to trust that in new models only bugs occur in features that are not used (not very trusting).
*
As mentioned earlier a new Korg arranger in the near future should reverse the backward development of the StylePlay functions and at least should have the functions completely or expanded on board, as we were used (not as globals but at performance/kbdsetLevel) to before the Pa4x.
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Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Korg1 wrote: | | I believe it's a ''just because you didn't see,doesn't mean they don't exist'' thing |
...no doubt you are correct.... guess I'm lucky so far...
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't call it lucky,just that you didn't happen to use that feature yet.
Unless it's working for you (if you tried it).
One of biggest bugs still exist is reboot due to songbook,setlist,or even songbook entry.
there are some more bugs,don't quite remember them right now ,or i don't mind ,but for sure, i am not going to move on thenext model,until most or all bugs get fixed and price drops down,that means aprox.5-6years after it's release....
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duby2
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 1377
Location: USA Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:54 pm Post subject: os3 |
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korg1
you said ,
a simple bug is that if you wanna assign a layer on aftertouch ,you simply can't anymore.It was working with version 2.2,it is working on pa3x,but not on pa4x anymore.
Just chose a sound,let's say ''Mute Trumpet''
create a new layer or copy,and try Osc Trigger mode for that layer.
Chose mode ''Aftertouch - Normal'' or legato or whatever.....Does it work ?
Everything you say is true all true, and
biggest bugs still exist is reboot due to songbook,setlist,
again , all true ..
Are the advantages so much greater than old operating system,,,
If korg comes out with the new model ,a PA 5 ,,,korg will knot keep working on the OS system and fix bugs on the old pa4x .. .korg just say buy a new pa5 with no bugs ( yet) .. korg has never updated any keyboard when the new model came out..
And if so which one was it..
Again I'm just trying to learn
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
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Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:38 am Post subject: |
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You re right about that .
Of course advantages are greater with new Os
even if it still has bugs ,
but that doesn’t mean at all that this kind of keyboards work as they should .
Korg should start considering selling keyboards that they will work fine ,then they can add whatever they want as extra .
As I said many times ,when I first bought pa4x at its higher price back then,
I couldn’t trust it to take it on gigs.
It was resting at home for more than a year ,after V2,2 came out ,I
started giging with it .
When 3 came out ,it was a nightmare till they give 3.1
Again,serious bugs that they will never be fixed .
That’s the future of keyboards ?
Full of bugs instruments ,
that no one will buy after some years ,
keyboards that even their main boards die
after some years ,so you simply can’t hold them like
you did with older hardware ?
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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OK guys - help me out here please...
| Quote: | Just chose a sound,let's say ''Muted Trumpet''
create a new layer or copy,and try Osc Trigger mode for that layer.
Chose mode ''Aftertouch - Normal'' or legato or whatever.....Does it work ? |
I have set this up already on another of my keyboards and would actually like to replicate it on my PA4X.
Until seeing your comments here, I have so far never tried it until just now.
Please tell me if this what you are referring to... I did this just to try it:-
I selected "Muted Trumpet" in SOUND mode
This has a single OSC so I added one.
In OSC #2, I selected a Strings ROM multisample
I selected "Aftertouch - Normal" as the trigger mode option and it worked perfectly - strings played only with aftertouch applied.
Thanks for any help on this as I want to now set up a few of these and so if there is a bug and I have not understood what you are saying about it, please let me know.
Thanks
Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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My pa4x is 76 keys ,PKG version ,
and after touch works fine except when trying
to assign the layer the way I described .
Tested on other pa4x using v3.1 and didn’t work .
Tested on pa4x v2.2 and it works .
Maybe works for v3 as well .
So far doesn’t work for two keyboards using v.3.1.
What is the version you use Pete ?
Could you upload a short clip ?
Thanx
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for replying
I am on 3.1 PKG (international PA4X).
I wanted to understand what you were meaning by layering - i.e. layered within a single SOUND (OSCs) or wanting to layer SOUNDS using UPPER1 & UPPER2 where one of them only reacts to A/T...
Since my message above, I have achieved both.....
Creating a SOUND for A/T only, requires a "Note-On" OSC and that can be achieved easily and quickly by creating a short silent sample and then assigning it to a multisample - then just change the other OSCs to trigger A/T as required.
So I had a trumpet SOUND in UPPER1 and strings_AT SOUND in UPPER2 - Strings only activated with A/T.
Just re-capping my layering within one SOUND:-
Selected "Muted trumpet"
Added OSC #2
Copied OSC #1 to OSC #2
Changed multisample in OSC #2 (etc....)
Selected "AFTERTOUCH - NORMAL" in trigger mode for OSC #2
Worked perfectly.
Are my steps above what you were wanting or have I still got it wrong?
Are you saying that this does not work for you or are you doing (needing) something different?
Cheers
Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
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