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pedro5
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 1150
Location: Coventry UK.
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 Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:32 am Post subject: |
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That's encouraging to know that there is some leeway with this.
To be honest,I've not really studied my own Kronos memory status,all my current libraires are loaded and work well.
I doubt any more will be added as I've moved onto Vi Software libraries,which are used in conjunction with the Kronos etc.
(Recently had to increase my imac memory to accomodate them,though).
Our good friend GregC uses the Kronos exclusively for all his songs and creates excellent music....semmingly effortless (being a natural and inventive composer).
His real bugbear being polyphony limitations,as for many.
However,the end results are always well produced.
I tend to just dabble and mess around with stuff without actually producing songs,but it can be enjoyable,which is part of the essence of music.
(We all have our own ways to such pleasures,there are no rights nor wrongs).
I do hope MarkNZ can return to music making very soon !!
Best Wishes to All. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| pedro5 wrote: |
1] Unfortunately it is one of the limiting factors of the Kronos....we can't load all the KSC of choice at once.
They need to be selective within memory capacity.
2]Apparently there is a means to have ( and save) several versions of KSC groups for different occasions,but,luckily,I've not got the need to do this,so I'm not familiar with the process.
However,KSC selection is not a long process and probably a routine could be adopted to suit.
Best Wishes. |
1] Exactly my experience.
I will try to draw a picture of my K1's use of memory.
Kronos OS requires about 1 Gig of RAM
From there, we have 3 Gig of 'useable ' RAM of 4 Gig installed.
This is per my Global/KSC Autoload tab:
There are 2 columns for ''memory' in use.
Ram and then DISK.
I have only 6 KSC's , I can only squeeze out enough RAM
to load 5 KSC's.
All my KSC's require some RAM and of course, the bulk of the
data [ 3rd party samples] for each KSC relies on streaming from DISK.
My 5 KSC's plus my Preload file [739 MB] occupy 2.9 Gig of RAM. So , I can only juggle what is "autoloaded" or I can possibly do a PCG workaround.
I think , and I haven't done this, is to have custom PCG's with additional KSC's, IOW, a custom PCG would not include some or many of my 'existing 5 KSC's "
Once organized into custom PCGs, it would only take 1 minute to load that.
I know I am missing a few wrinkles/steos on this workaround.
However, this juggling act is counter intuitive to my song writing process.
I need the ' full menu ' of sounds, samples, when I create. Much of creativity
is spontaneity. Flashs of ideas, etc, etc, that are quickly acted on, vs fussing
around with data management on custom PCG's, and 3 minute re-booting.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams 
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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MarkNZ
Joined: 09 Mar 2020
Posts: 22
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| tunaman wrote: | | MarkNZ wrote: | | Thanks for your help, really appreciate it. Ok by following your steps I have a lot of memory available now but how will that help me when I load back all of these KSC files I'll be back to where I was. If it is a ram issue can this be upgraded? I am sure there are many kronos users with far more stuff loaded on than me. Just rambling here, but can I load the new stuff on while having the KSC files unselected and then I will have to choose which ones I may need each time I turn the keyboard on, that would be a real pain to swap and change depending on the sound you need. Thanks again. |
Is this an original Kronos (K1)? If so, you can add more RAM which makes more available for samples. If it is a K2, the RAM is maxed out.
One thing you should scrutinize closely - see how many of the KSC files listed for auto-load are <filename>.KSC, and look to see if there are <filename>_UserBank.KSC files present in the filesystem instead. You should usually opt to load the UserBank samples, as they run directly from disk instead of consuming RAM to load.
Once you've optimized this, then if you still have issues you will need to selectively load specific KSC files with prejudice as needed. |
Answering your questions in order - It's the K2 SE. So it probably has a little less memory left than the standard model as there are extra Kapro sounds preloaded.
There are 6x <filename>KSC. There are two much bigger files 1. Imported EPs - Userbank KSC and 2. Preload KSC.
How do I run these larger files directly from the disk? This sounds like it would solve my problem as the remaining files I want to load are nowhere near the size of even one of these two files.
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Korg Grandstage 88, Korg Kronos SE 88 |
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MarkNZ
Joined: 09 Mar 2020
Posts: 22
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| pedro5 wrote: | That's encouraging to know that there is some leeway with this.
To be honest,I've not really studied my own Kronos memory status,all my current libraires are loaded and work well.
I doubt any more will be added as I've moved onto Vi Software libraries,which are used in conjunction with the Kronos etc.
(Recently had to increase my imac memory to accomodate them,though).
Our good friend GregC uses the Kronos exclusively for all his songs and creates excellent music....semmingly effortless (being a natural and inventive composer).
His real bugbear being polyphony limitations,as for many.
However,the end results are always well produced.
I tend to just dabble and mess around with stuff without actually producing songs,but it can be enjoyable,which is part of the essence of music.
(We all have our own ways to such pleasures,there are no rights nor wrongs).
I do hope MarkNZ can return to music making very soon !!
Best Wishes to All. |
Thanks Pedro, yes if only all of this sort of backroom stuff was far simpler to achieve so a blockhead like me can manage it. I'm sure Korg has heard this all before after nearly 10 years of selling the Kronos but in this day and age a much larger capacity internal disk and more Ram should be standard.
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Korg Grandstage 88, Korg Kronos SE 88 |
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tunaman
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2019
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| MarkNZ wrote: | | I'm sure Korg has heard this all before after nearly 10 years of selling the Kronos but in this day and age a much larger capacity internal disk and more Ram should be standard. |
Therein lies the rub... as most here will lament, it’s a 10 year old platform built on 32 bit hardware, so it is up against physical limitations.
As you found out, disk space is not a constraint as the hardware can address much larger SSD drives. But the linux kernel can only use the 32 bit memory address space. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| tunaman wrote: | | MarkNZ wrote: | | I'm sure Korg has heard this all before after nearly 10 years of selling the Kronos but in this day and age a much larger capacity internal disk and more Ram should be standard. |
Therein lies the rub... as most here will lament, it’s a 10 year old platform built on 32 bit hardware, so it is up against physical limitations.
As you found out, disk space is not a constraint as the hardware can address much larger SSD drives. But the linux kernel can only use the 32 bit memory address space. |
That seems accurate
Not an IT person.. due to the kernel and 32 bit addressing, the current 4 GB Ram is as far as Kronos can handle.
Simply adding 8 GB of RAM is useless, in that the 32 bit addressing is the limiting factor, restricting Kronos to 4 GB Ram. Correct ?
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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tunaman
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2019
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| MarkNZ wrote: | Answering your questions in order - It's the K2 SE. So it probably has a little less memory left than the standard model as there are extra Kapro sounds preloaded.
There are 6x <filename>KSC. There are two much bigger files 1. Imported EPs - Userbank KSC and 2. Preload KSC.
How do I run these larger files directly from the disk? This sounds like it would solve my problem as the remaining files I want to load are nowhere near the size of even one of these two files. |
The PRELOAD.KSC is the factory library, and there are opportunities there depending on how you use your Kronos. For instance, there are many drum kits included, and if you are like me and don’t use some or all then you can make a copy and strip them out to reduce the usage.
For the UserBank KSC file - is it included in the list of autoload KSC files?
If you haven’t already done so, I’d suggest that you read through the section in the Operations Guide starting on page 183 (Automatically loading sample data).
Meanwhile, I’ll try to find the post I ran across early on about reducing the Preload data. |
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GregC
Platinum Member
Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9451
Location: Discovery Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| tunaman wrote: |
The PRELOAD.KSC is the factory library, and there are opportunities there depending on how you use your Kronos. For instance, there are many drum kits included, and if you are like me and don’t use some or all then you can make a copy and strip them out to reduce the usage.
. |
Regarding removing, stripping out instruments , drum kits from the Preload.
I recommend some caution, esp to new Kronos owners.
The Quick Split/Quick Layer screen feature at the Program level uses a drum kit and pattern, for example.
Having that drum instrument is useful for tempo and accompaniment.
Plus todays new Kronos owner might be a potential song writer, and Kronos drums are excellent support for song writers.
Some Kronos owners could become 1 Man Band musicians. Again, Kronos drums more than get the job done. The variety of kits have proven their value to me.
I think its possible to 'reinstate ' instruments/drums potentially removed form the PreLoad. You might consider documenting how a reinstatement can be done.
_________________
Kronos 88. MODX8
Achieve your musical dreams
https://soundcloud.com/user-898236994 |
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tunaman
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2019
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| tunaman wrote: | The PRELOAD.KSC is the factory library, and there are opportunities there depending on how you use your Kronos. For instance, there are many drum kits included, and if you are like me and don’t use some or all then you can make a copy and strip them out to reduce the usage.
<clip>
Meanwhile, I’ll try to find the post I ran across early on about reducing the Preload data. |
Here's the post I was looking for:
https://thekronosblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/freeing-up-ram.html
I'll be back in a bit to address your comments Greg. |
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tunaman
Senior Member
Joined: 28 Nov 2019
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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*****DISCLAIMER***** ALL INFORMATION PROVIDED IS INTENDED FOR INTERMEDIATE AND ADVANCED KRONOS USERS, AND INFERS KNOWLEDGE AND FAMILIARITY BEYOND BASIC, CASUAL RUDIMENTARY EXPERIENCE.
BEFORE MAKING ANY CHANGES OR UPDATES TO YOUR WORKSTATION, CREATE A BACKUP DIRECTORY AND PERFORM A SAVE ALL IN THAT DIRECTORY. THEN COPY ALL FILES AND DIRECTORIES FROM THE HARD DRIVE ONTO A USB MEMORY STICK OR SOME OTHER EXTERNAL MEDIUM AND STORE IN A SECURE LOCATION.
I hope that helps?
As stated in my previous post, DEPENDING ON THE INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL USAGE AND GOALS, some sample data (unused drum kits for instance) can be unloaded to save valuable RAM for other purposes.
I don't think I need to document this process, as Mr. Busch did a wonderful job outlining the process in his blog post.
If one follows the instructions carefully and precisely, it is a trivial process to revert back to the original PRELOAD set, or any other alternative configuration, merely by selecting which KSC file is enabled in the Auto-Load list and initiating a reload.
For anyone who uses their workstation beyond the mere basics, this is a valuable concept to understand and leverage.
IF YOU MAKE CHANGES TO YOUR KRONOS, SAVE OFTEN AND DEVELOP A BACKUP METHODOLOGY WHERE YOU CAN SAVE VERSIONS AS UPDATES OCCUR, ALLOWING YOU TO REVERT TO PRIOR STATES SHOULD SOMETHING GO WRONG OR NEED TO BE RESTORED |
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MarkNZ
Joined: 09 Mar 2020
Posts: 22
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| tunaman wrote: | *****DISCLAIMER***** ALL INFORMATION PROVIDED IS INTENDED FOR INTERMEDIATE AND ADVANCED KRONOS USERS, AND INFERS KNOWLEDGE AND FAMILIARITY BEYOND BASIC, CASUAL RUDIMENTARY EXPERIENCE.
BEFORE MAKING ANY CHANGES OR UPDATES TO YOUR WORKSTATION, CREATE A BACKUP DIRECTORY AND PERFORM A SAVE ALL IN THAT DIRECTORY. THEN COPY ALL FILES AND DIRECTORIES FROM THE HARD DRIVE ONTO A USB MEMORY STICK OR SOME OTHER EXTERNAL MEDIUM AND STORE IN A SECURE LOCATION.
I hope that helps?
As stated in my previous post, DEPENDING ON THE INDIVIDUAL'S PERSONAL USAGE AND GOALS, some sample data (unused drum kits for instance) can be unloaded to save valuable RAM for other purposes.
I don't think I need to document this process, as Mr. Busch did a wonderful job outlining the process in his blog post.
If one follows the instructions carefully and precisely, it is a trivial process to revert back to the original PRELOAD set, or any other alternative configuration, merely by selecting which KSC file is enabled in the Auto-Load list and initiating a reload.
For anyone who uses their workstation beyond the mere basics, this is a valuable concept to understand and leverage.
IF YOU MAKE CHANGES TO YOUR KRONOS, SAVE OFTEN AND DEVELOP A BACKUP METHODOLOGY WHERE YOU CAN SAVE VERSIONS AS UPDATES OCCUR, ALLOWING YOU TO REVERT TO PRIOR STATES SHOULD SOMETHING GO WRONG OR NEED TO BE RESTORED |
Tunaman on a previous post you said: "You should usually opt to load the UserBank samples, as they run directly from disk instead of consuming RAM to load." Does this mean I can run these samples through a different method and keep the ram space available. How is this achieved?
I am the one man band user so I do use the drum patterns etc. I would be loathed to remove any of the preloaded samples even if I will never use them.
Here's a thought. Of the 6x EXs loaded in, (mostly Purgatory Creek's EP's, electric grands and clavs) Each one contains up to 30 variants of a similar sound. Is it possible to reduce these down to say 6 favorites, making each EXs around 5 times smaller? I could live with doing that.
Again a big thanks to all of you who have contributed to helping me out.
_________________
Korg Grandstage 88, Korg Kronos SE 88 |
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