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JagiChan
Full Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2023
Posts: 111
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 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Biggles wrote: | Whatever you do to the original Sound it is not yours to modify and to sell on.
If you use an original Sound and re-sample it, it is still not yours, it still belongs to Korg, Yamaha etc whoever owns the original Sound, owns all subsequent uses of said sound.
If you opened a donut outlet, called it McDonut and put a whacking great big yellow M sign on the outlet do you think that a certain company would not take legal action.
Same thing |
You hit the nail on the head. Derivative works are also copyrighted by the original owner (only the modified part belongs to the owner who made the changes).
If you look at how the software industry works when it comes to IP and source code, the same rules "maybe" applicable to the sounds and tweaking etc., Why? My logic here is, "The sounds are sampled, digitized and put into a Musical Instrument/VST/plugin. The copyright of those samples belongs to the original owner, which maybe Korg/Yamaha/Roland/etc./etc.... The company has "NOT SOLD" the firmware/software samples/copyright, instead it has "LICENSED" the sounds, patches, etc., to the purchaser for fair usage"
Consider the PC software MACOS or MS Windows; the software and IP for the same is owned by Apple and Microsoft respectively. Ripping the executable of MACOS and creating a derivative work and calling it the OrangeOS does not alter the copyright of Apple on the MACOS software and any derivative work.
On a similar line, if someone is resampling a Musical Instrument/VST/Plugin then it is called "derivative work" and the copyright of derivative work is also owned by the original author (except for the changed parts which are owned by the new author who made the derivative work).
As far as selling derivative works, is concerned, "the written consent of the original copyright owner needs to be procured before selling derivative works" |
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Aripearlmusic
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 353
Location: BROOKLYN NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 4:35 am Post subject: |
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I'm not worried at all about copyright issues with any of the big companies. They had their shot at hiring me to fix their sampling errors but cared more about whether I had a college degree which I am happy to say I don't. I'm glad you think my Nord pianos are authentic. The Ravencroft 275 is a great one from UVI Falcon which I sampled through the VT747SP so it's been processed through 2 tubes making the samples my own to sell. All of my sounds are processed through a combination of hardware and software even though some originated from hardware and some from software. I don't try to clone sounds I try to improve them starting at the source then along the full signal chain. If Roland or Yamaha get jealous enough to try to give me issues with copyright it would just be flattering and hot air since they would have no case.
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Ari Pearl Music
Sound Developer for the 5x and 4x at https://performersheaven.com/en/shop-en/by-author-en/ari-en |
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JagiChan
Full Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2023
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| Aripearlmusic wrote: | | I'm not worried at all about copyright issues with any of the big companies. They had their shot at hiring me to fix their sampling errors but cared more about whether I had a college degree which I am happy to say I don't. I'm glad you think my Nord pianos are authentic. |
It is sad that for want of a college degree a lot of companies lose out on good talent. As a manager myself, I don't look for college degree, rather I look for what the person brings on the table. I look for talent rather than paper degrees, this makes my job difficult, because then I have to convince HR why I am hiring without a college degree. |
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Dmkeys
Full Member
Joined: 04 May 2009
Posts: 169
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Aripearlmusic wrote: | | I'm not worried at all about copyright issues with any of the big companies. They had their shot at hiring me to fix their sampling errors but cared more about whether I had a college degree which I am happy to say I don't. I'm glad you think my Nord pianos are authentic. The Ravencroft 275 is a great one from UVI Falcon which I sampled through the VT747SP so it's been processed through 2 tubes making the samples my own to sell. All of my sounds are processed through a combination of hardware and software even though some originated from hardware and some from software. I don't try to clone sounds I try to improve them starting at the source then along the full signal chain. If Roland or Yamaha get jealous enough to try to give me issues with copyright it would just be flattering and hot air since they would have no case. |
This thread, and this post in specific, ensures that you will lose an enforcement action, should Ravenscroft specifically, but really any sample-based VI owner decide to sue you. In it, you explicitly acknowledge •knowingly• using their source material and not caring and they could also point to "sour grapes" as a proof of intent. (They deserve it because they didn't hire me.) The fact that you think a preamp or converters "change the sound materially" in a legal sense just demonstrates that you do not understand copyright law.
There's a good chance you'll get away with it because you're a small business and may not come to their attention, but that doesn't mean it's legal. You'd 100% lose a lawsuit on this.
Now, if you created a *new* sound, say you'd layered Ravenscroft piano with strings from a different company and a synth pad from your Nord and sampled the resulting "unique" sound, you'd be able to sell that (although you still might not be able to use brand names in the description.) |
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Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1014
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| JagiChan wrote: | | Biggles wrote: | Whatever you do to the original Sound it is not yours to modify and to sell on.
If you use an original Sound and re-sample it, it is still not yours, it still belongs to Korg, Yamaha etc whoever owns the original Sound, owns all subsequent uses of said sound.
If you opened a donut outlet, called it McDonut and put a whacking great big yellow M sign on the outlet do you think that a certain company would not take legal action.
Same thing |
You hit the nail on the head. Derivative works are also copyrighted by the original owner (only the modified part belongs to the owner who made the changes).
If you look at how the software industry works when it comes to IP and source code, the same rules "maybe" applicable to the sounds and tweaking etc., Why? My logic here is, "The sounds are sampled, digitized and put into a Musical Instrument/VST/plugin. The copyright of those samples belongs to the original owner, which maybe Korg/Yamaha/Roland/etc./etc.... The company has "NOT SOLD" the firmware/software samples/copyright, instead it has "LICENSED" the sounds, patches, etc., to the purchaser for fair usage"
Consider the PC software MACOS or MS Windows; the software and IP for the same is owned by Apple and Microsoft respectively. Ripping the executable of MACOS and creating a derivative work and calling it the OrangeOS does not alter the copyright of Apple on the MACOS software and any derivative work.
On a similar line, if someone is resampling a Musical Instrument/VST/Plugin then it is called "derivative work" and the copyright of derivative work is also owned by the original author (except for the changed parts which are owned by the new author who made the derivative work).
As far as selling derivative works, is concerned, "the written consent of the original copyright owner needs to be procured before selling derivative works" |
I am glad someone agrees with me.
I do wish that this forum had a Block feature so that I could use it to never see any posts by certain members.
If its possible Mr Admin, please explain how to use it.
_________________
Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10406
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Biggles wrote: | I do wish that this forum had a Block feature so that I could use it to never see any posts by certain members.
If its possible Mr Admin, please explain how to use it. |
Not a feature available to members.
Just choose not to read messages by those members - it's easy.
This is a monitored public forum and any inappropriate posts are removed and associated members banned as deemed necessary.
Take care..
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
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D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1204
Location: UK (Dorset)
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Biggles wrote: |
I do wish that this forum had a Block feature so that I could use it to never see any posts by certain members.
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The fundamental tenet of a free society is the unimpeded exchange of ideas with words in a Public Forum 
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer : |
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Nemik
Approved Merchant
Joined: 27 Jan 2014
Posts: 1726
Location: Hilton Head Island, SC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Biggles wrote: |
I do wish that this forum had a Block feature so that I could use it to never see any posts by certain members.
If its possible Mr Admin, please explain how to use it. |
Is very Simple.
Skip it, don't read it, move on. 
_________________
Nemik
Korg Kronos2-61, Korg Pa600, Novation UltraNova, Akai Professional MPK49, Akai Professional MPK225 , Alesis QX-49, APC25 Keys, Launchpad MK2, Korg nanoPad2
MOTU Midi Express XT, FCB1010 with UnO, Behringer X2222 USB, TASCAM Model 24 Mixer, Presonus AudioBox96, M-Track Plus
Fl Studio 21, Ableton Live 10 Suite.
Korg Pa5x Sounds at Performers Heaven |
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