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Synergy
Full Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 185
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 Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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-"I don't have confidence in the Japan team being able to 'get it'"-
So now you are already an expert in Korg insider affairs just because you used to work with them and travel to Japan three times a year? Their industrial output tells me otherwise. I didn't even realize that I was already an expert in German, Italian and Irish work ethics.
-"I think it would be a good idea to move the OASYS sequencer development to either California or New York."-
Are you assuming that the folks in either California or New York will be more efficient in doing the job? Apparently our companies here in America are outsourcing jobs to India and China. I assume you are not against in this issue.
Try your local music instrument stores and find out who really knows about the electronic music industry. The Oasys isn't all about the sequencer but I do agree with you that the sequencer needs huge improvements. But the reasoning behind your comments makes me wonder your true motive. |
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Derm
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Dublin
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Derm
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:16 am Post subject: Re: Sequencer might be good for demo's... but thats about it |
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| sasori wrote: |
Another confusing thing is that although copying a combi to a seq is handy, I couldn't figure out how to set other empty tracks to midi channells to fill them with other instruments. I turnded off muti and the rec's for the tracks borrowed from the combi; but no luck. I'm sure this is just due to me not figuring out that facet of the sequencer, though.
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I've had the same problem. In addition to Mike's recommendations, the parameter I ommited was on the Timbre Parameter page (Combi Mode), you have to select Global channel in the midi box. If you port your combi over to a seq without doing this, you wont hear your "new" sound. The equivalent page in the Sequencer is Track Parameters, you select whatever number your Global channel is, to rectify this.
Happy sequencing 
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Last edited by Derm on Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:22 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Derm
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Dublin
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Derm
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: Re: Sequencer might be good for demo's... but thats about it |
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sorry, having some problems 
I'm going to be a Platinum Member in a day or so if I keep going at this rate
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www.photoazure.com
Last edited by Derm on Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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sasori
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 50
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:24 am Post subject: |
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"But the reasoning behind your comments makes me wonder your true motive."
My only motive is to finally have a sequencer that enables me to quickly get the songs in my head out into the real world (because, clearly, my head isn't there  ). I know what Japan won't do: They won't ask an actual accomplished songwriter to guide them in this quest.
"just because you used to work with them and travel to Japan three times a year? Their industrial output tells me otherwise."
I said I worked with Japanese companies, not Korg specifically (if I did, the sequencer would be better:P). The info that the Japan unit of Korg is tasked with the sequencer was discovered in an article about the OASYS.
I'm not sure which angle you're talking about, in 'industrial output'; do you mean manufacturing or actual software development? At any rate, no, I don't like any type of work farmed out to other countries. Thats not what this is about. I think Japan is an example of how farming out work to other countries sorely affects a country's economy; Japan just agreed on raising their loan percentage .01%, from 0%, betting that the economy is on the rebound. Though, employment numbers over there are less assuring. but, I digress (I think).
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060309/japan_central_bank.html?.v=4
Was the internet developed in India or China? How about Virtual Reality? Jaron Lanier founded VPL in Redwood City California. The current Beetle and RX7 were designed in Southern California. These points are that the field of music creation, more specifically song creation, could use a little creative rethinking.
Its like sequencer creators are stuck in a 'lets make a better hammer' phase. Hammers are great, but where's my nail-gun of a sequencer?
Ensoniq came the closest. |
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ricky recordo
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:48 am Post subject: |
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Forgive me please for mentioning Emagic's Creator/Notator package again. I ran it on a simple Atari 1040ST. In my mind Creator/Notator still gives the best balance of power and ease-of-use in the sequencer world - to this day.
If Emagic (or Apple) were to grant Korg the rights to port this classic program over to the OASYS with the essential layout intact and some poofed up graphics, you'd have a simple-to-use, powerful sequencer that would do the OASYS justice. In fact, I'd probably buy an OASYS if Notator was the sequencer engine... it's that good. |
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MartinHines
Platinum Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3037
Location: Topeka, KS (USA)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:19 am Post subject: Re: Sequencer might be good for demo's... but thats about it |
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| sasori wrote: | | MartinHines wrote: |
I am confused -- half the Triton sequencer? |
Because at least the Triton enables you to create 'verses' instead of 'songs', that can be chained together into a final song. (I'm using my vernacular, here, not theirs).
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Since I have an OASYS and a Triton Extreme I wouldn't necessarily call the OASYS's lack of the Cue List function "half the Triton sequencer", but I now understand your complaint.
I am suprised you found the creating separate songs, then joining them together with a Cue List that useful, especially since the song "parts" can have gaps in them if they use different effects. I have always assumed that the Cue List was originally designed TO BE a Cue List (meaning a way to create a set list), and Korg only discovered the Cue List could be used for song creation after the fact. If I remember correctly, the "Convert Cue List to Song" function was only added a few years ago. |
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Mike Conway
Approved Merchant
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2436
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't have confidence in the Japan team being able to 'get it' |
I don't know about that statement, being that Roland's hardware sequencers kick butt. In fact, I got along splendidly with Yamaha's sequencers, also.
E-MU? You just reminded me of the worst onboard sequencer, I have used, which is the one on my E4K keyboard. Large tape style transport buttons and 48 tracks, but not much in the way of features.
| Quote: | | Since I have an OASYS and a Triton Extreme I wouldn't necessarily call the OASYS's lack of the Cue List function "half the Triton sequencer", |
Hi, Martin. Maybe, not half, but the Cue List is a great feature. Imagine that you are working on song #3. You have a great drum sequence from song #2 and a cool trance line, with intermittent filter cut off which is controlled by tapping the ribbon (which I don't want to have to repeat). With the Cue List, you can actually bring these parts into song #3 and not have to reinvent the wheel. With the OASYS, so many of the controllers (sliders, knobs, switches, Vector - 33 quick edit parameters?) can be recorded to the sequencer, so a lot of times it's more than just tapping the ribbon.
Whenever an idea strikes, I might create a musical sketch of it and save it. Months later, I have a lot of these sketches. Like my example, above, I can bring in different sketches, with the Cue List, and not have to create each one, again.
The Pattern function can grab and put data, from and to single MIDI tracks. Not the same as a 16 track Cue List, but it goes a way toward accomplishing what I'm talking about, above.
When I compose percussion driven pieces, I could copy a song to a different location and truncate it to the part that I like - stick it in the Cue List, to be used at any point of the compilation. Song sections are easily repeatable or able to be rearranged.
Depending on you compose, the Cue List function can be vital to the process, especially if you already got used to it.
Although I don't know as much about all the features, I do agree with Sharp that you can do sophisticated things with a Korg sequencer. But I sure miss that per measure(s) Velocity and Gate adjustment feature, which is available on the Roland and Yamaha sequencers.
Last edited by Mike Conway on Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:42 am; edited 2 times in total |
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jerrythek
Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Posts: 2931
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Well... I remember a bit about that Ensoniq sequencer... after 8 years with the company.
I still have a TS-10 and 12...amongst my toys.
We have made some nice progress moving the Trinity platform into the TRITON and forward - a lot has developed in the workflow and functions! But I too share the strong desire to break through to new things as well. And I learn all the time not only from the few concepts that were truly important in the Ensoniq design, but from the best of the computer platforms as well.
The strongest aspect of the Ensoniq design was the Sequence "elements" (think of them as 12 track patterns) which when assembled into a Song then had 12 more Song Tracks that spanned the whole arrangement. Loved that!
But from an editing and data display side I don't think there was so much to love there...
We have a long and deep list of ideas and wishes that have been drawn from a lot of sources, but (as usual) I can make no promises or comments about future plans. I will readily admit/agree that we have been emphasizing the synthesis/sound making side of our developments for a while now, and these are very important aspects of an instrument.
Our team is very dedicated, just a bit small and overworked. When they focus on an aspect of the product they dig in, accept lots of input and truly try to make something great. So let's not let this thread turn into some jingoistic nation-bashing. At least at Korg we view everything we do as an international team effort.
Regards,
Jerry |
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sasori
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 50
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| ricky recordo wrote: | Forgive me please for mentioning Emagic's Creator/Notator package again. I ran it on a simple Atari 1040ST. In my mind Creator/Notator still gives the best balance of power and ease-of-use in the sequencer world - to this day.
If Emagic (or Apple) were to grant Korg the rights to port this classic program over to the OASYS with the essential layout intact and some poofed up graphics, you'd have a simple-to-use, powerful sequencer that would do the OASYS justice. In fact, I'd probably buy an OASYS if Notator was the sequencer engine... it's that good. |
That looks like it would do the trick. Nice. I never sequenced on the Atari, though, I had one. Crap! |
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ricky recordo
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| jerrythek wrote: | | We have made some nice progress moving the Trinity platform into the TRITON and forward - a lot has developed in the workflow and functions! |
The Trinity's sequencer is nice, and once you learn your way around, it's easy to use, (plus the Trinity's 8 insert FX are nice too...)
The LOOP REC function makes it almost as easy to record song sections as the ESQ1 did. The timing is solid and the Trinity's sequencer locks up perfectly to my AW16G.
Good roots to nurture 
Re: Notator - here's some history for you , sasori:
http://tamw.atari-users.net/notator.htm
freshen up the graphics, integrate KARMA and wavesequencing... |
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sasori
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 50
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| jerrythek wrote: | Well... I remember a bit about that Ensoniq sequencer... after 8 years with the company.
I still have a TS-10 and 12...amongst my toys.
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Hello Jerry, brilliant to hear from you. The main things the OASYS could learn from the ESQ are:
Wait until I start playing:
For an idiot like me, somtimes the 4 count is not right; you're not ready. So, you have to start over again. I know, it sounds pathetic, but the ESQ's metronome would tick away, waiting for you to spart playing before recording. Being able to auto-clutch it is really great.
Wait for this sequence to finish before jumping to the next selected one:
Now, this was super awesome on the ESQ: you have 8 soft buttons representing your various sequences and you're basically exploring the combinattions of selecting this-one after that. Basically, by hitting one of the buttons while the current sequence was running, it would que it up to be played next, right after the previous one finished.
This concept would be brilliant if added across the OASYS. As it is now, your timing for triggering rhythmic combos must be spot on. This feature would be a whole new delight to the OASYS!
How the OASYS could improve on the ESQ is:
Keep it rolling!
I pre-set a sequence to 8 bars and start laying down the bassline. After the 8 bars, it should start looping immediately; if I don't like it, I start over. If I do like it, I move immediately to another track and start messing with drums. Once I got it, I hit record (better yet, a foot pedal) and start rolling out the drumtrack, without having to stop the sequence at all. Cubase is like this. Don't make me stop the playback for anything.
Now you're making me a songwriter again. |
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Derm
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Jerry,
It does me good to know that you understand the Ensoniq sequencer, I hope you're batting for us. Sitting beside me here is a TS-10 & 12, SQ-80 and ASR-10R, I think I might have bought Mr. Carpentier (?) a holiday home, had the ESQ also. Anyway enough history.
You have to understand the shock it is switching from the rapid workflow of a 13 year old TS to the Oasys. Its a disappointment I was not expecting.
The great features and sounds of the Oasys easily inspire creativity only to become bogged down in the sequencer. It needs a huge overhaul, it does this keyboard no justice.
I am not hung up on having an Ensoniq replica, I have used Emu (tiny display) and software. I believe workflow is at its fastest if you can stay in one box, hence the Oasys.
The Track Loop feature in the Oasys seq seems pretty useless to me, how often would you loop the same bars throughout an entire song?
The RPPR feature isn't much of a song creation tool either, it strikes mme as something for live use. Maybe there is more Ineed to learn about them
I would second Sasori's requests re the click etc.
The Track Edit page with its tiny representation of events is also frustrating.
Also it sounds to me that the missing "Cue List" feature, which I know nothing about and seems to be badly missed by a lot of folks around here,
was similar to Ensoniq methodology of song structure.
If anybody is doing well with the Oasys seq, they will be a genius on another machine.
I would love and hope to see a big improvement
Best Regards
Derm
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www.photoazure.com |
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Derm
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 276
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I should have mentioned, if this was any other keyboard, I might have been in despair at the situation. However, its flexibility to change is most of the reason I bought it.
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www.photoazure.com |
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