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[sewa]

Having returned from holidays this week, I plunged into unread newspappers to fill the information gap. As Sarah Palin is all over the news these days, I spent some time reading press articles and trying to figure out what is happening.

That Republicans could get 're-elected' following the Bush-Era seemed incomprehensible to me. After all, it was GWB that involved the country in a war that cost lives, ruined US reputation worldwide, inflated the national debt, all for apparently no good reason. Still, these people have the nerve to talk about the national security...

Anyway, things did not look too good for Mc Cain until last week when Palin was announced as a prospective vice-president. All of the sudden, the disastourous foreign policy pursued for the last 8 years does not seem to matter. What does matter is Palin's cool nickname she used to have in highschool some 30 years ago...

What happened to reason and critical political judgment?

I'm not saying that things go out of hand in the US only. Far from it. The political campaign we had back home a while ago was even more miserable with overpresent PR specialist drowning any reasonable debate in media spectacles.

I'm particularly worried about the way things develop in the US though. Maybe I'm missing something, and the picture I have is incomplete...(?)

sewa

[Fatalmasterpiece]

In the USA it seems to be the sentiment that what other countries think about us doesn't matter. If you asked many citizens what should be done with Iran or North Korea, they would just say, bomb the hell out of them.

Then there is the other crowd here that are concerned about the environment and humanitarian efforts in other countries. However, these are the same people who are worried about whether the President is having an affair or not and who is winning American Idle.

In the end, it seems like most here don't really care about what is going on in the rest of the world. It is all about image, who is making money, looking good for the church and material comforts.

[RiotNrrd]

There are a few topics that don't really belong on this board (really, even in the off-topic section) because of both the international composition of this forum, and because the focus here is on music. And those reasons are mainly because those few topics lead to some really nasty fights and generally bad feelings and ruffled feathers.

The topics? Religion, and politics.

Now, concerning the latter topic (politics), I've got a LOT to say about the election, and Palin in particular (I'm a democrat, so you can guess just how nice those comments might be), but... Those comments don't really belong here.

That said, with the election arriving in less than two months, more and more people are going to want to talk about it. So, I would propose to Sharp and Daz that maybe we ought to create a new topic - maybe even a subtopic of the "Off Topic" section - devoted purely to containing any talk about the election. If someone in some other part of the forum starts going off about Obama, or McCain, or Palin, or Biden, or etc., we can say "Hey buddy, the cesspool is over THERE - have at it."

Let it be a "gloves off" place. No restrictions. Scream all you want. Yammer about islamofascist Obama, or idiot Palin, or clueless geezer McCain, or just how stupid and knee-jerk America in general is, etc., to your hearts content. Just do it THERE. And after the election, when everyone is sick and tired of discussing it any further, the topic can be removed.

Seems like a fine idea to me. At least, it'll keep the rest of the forum clean.

[xmlguy]

You can't get a very accurate feel for the sentiment of the American people from the press and media.

There is still a very deep undercurrent that is rarely discussed about the aftermath of the Sept. 11th attacks. It isn't about fear. It's about revenge, and the lack of any way to personally get that revenge here in the United States. That McCain slip about "Bomb Bomb Iran" actually touches a chord. I think many Americans still want to see a lot more kick ass dealt to any nations that pose any kind of terrorist threat.

This is the case even though the large majority of citizens want to have the troops return from Iraq and don't support how much money and lives have been spent trying to rebuild Iraq. I think most Americans would've been very pleased to see Iraq left in rubble, particularly once Saddam was captured, and the same for Iran. It didn't really matter much what Bush's reasons were to attack Iraq. WMDs weren't the real reason. Revenge was, and Iraq was as good a target as any, with Saddam constantly violating the UN no fly zone agreement under Clinton (causing Clinton to order the bombing attack on Iraq - most people forget that).

Obama has the best chance of winning due to the economic situation that favors him, but if he appears soft on Iran or other terror threats, then he could easily lose it.

[sewa]

I see your point Riot but perhaps, considering the circumstances, we could for once depart from that rule.

There isn't much room left for discussing important things in the everyday life. The international composition of this forum could make it all the more interesting.

Fatalmasterpiece, xlm - thanks for feedback. Its exactly that kind of insight that I'm missing from my perspective.


sewa

[mdh]

[sewa]

@mdh

I thought this line of reasoning wore out during the last 8 years but apparently, that's not the case.

Leaving aside the logic behind the outlined strategy, its effects are miserable and today we all find ourselves in a world much less secure then 8 years ago. Instead of focusing on Afganistan, GWB conquered Iraq and the allies have neither of those countries under control these days.

Freedom and peace are noble values but they are all too often misused for a far less noble purpose: power. I believe that Putin has learned the lesson and so his troops entered Georgia to protect human rights of the Russian speaking minority...

[dreamaiden]

I normally don't express my political and spiritual view points on public forums and agree with Riot, but I feel so strongly that Obama should win this election that I will make an exception.

Here is why I believe we desperately need Obama. In my opinion Obama has 3 main traits that we severely need: wisdom and good instincts, eloquence and bridge-building.

We absolutely need someone who has wisdom as his basis for making decisions, not just for the US but for the entire world. Obama truly is eloquent, an early criticism, but in my opinion, something desperately needed. We need someone who is eloquent - someone who can talk with world leaders, the people of the US and all countries and inspire them to a higher vision for the world and all of the people in it, someone who can build bridges between races, party lines, and countries. Obama believes that changing the world starts from the ground up and I believe he is 'the one' who can do exactly that, in this country and in the world. People in this world are starving for someone just like Obama to lead the way.

I'm really glad that Sewa opened the door to this conversation because I believe that it is us, the people, who must choose wise leaders, and I also believe that even though it is a US election, the choice here greatly impacts the entire world, and so, I believe that people in all countries should voice their opinions. The fact that 200,000 people in Germany flocked to hear Obama speak is a clear indication of his ability to affect the world in the way we all need it to be affected. We all know what we need and yet we do not have it. 'We' the people need to change the world and we must put the right people into office.

It is amazing to me that there are billions of people in the world and yet only a handful of leaders are allowed to determine the life and death of so many people. As an example, I do not believe the people of Iran want war with the people of the US. I do not believe the people of the US want war with the people of Iran. We are all nice people and could really easily all be friends. I have friends in Russia and Iran and I do not want to have war with either of them! If only we could effectively communicate to bridge the gaps and build common ground. We must choose leaders who are wise, have excellent communication skills, and will build bridges through right relations. It is time we took a higher path in this country.

Please, just this once, vote for Obama, the person we really need, and if you are in another country, please tell the people in the US how you feel.

May we the people win our world back.
Susan

[Giner]

As one looking in from the outside, in this case Canada, I also hope that Obama wins the race for the very reasons that you state, Susan.

In addition to those qualities, the man has charisma which works in much wider circles than just the American voters. Give me someone with that ingredient that comes naturally rather than someone like McCain who had to resort to pulling a political stunt with the recruitment of Palin which he knew would garner immediate attention because of America's infatuation with gossip - hardly an American exclusive, though. Had it not been for this masterstroke of McCain's spinmeisters, McCain would have retained all the appeal of a bowl of cold chili.

America and, by extension, the planet, needs Obama. After Bush, who for the most part has become a caricature and a laughingstock (if only matters weren't so bloody serious) and in the process only made things worse, Obama will surely be a breath of fresh air. I wish I had a vote.

The only thing that concerns me is that if the American electorate were beguiled enough to vote Bush in at the last go round, who's to say the gossip/rah-rah tactics of McCain won't sway them again?

Finally, I just wish all these headline-seeking showbiz people, of whichever political stripe, would just shut the hell up and let democracy take its course.

[sewa]

[EJ2]

Hi Susan,
I will take up your call to speak out. I am only one Canadian, but I can tell you that for the past 8 years the United States of America has left many Canadians wondering what the hell has happened to Democracy in the Land of the Free and the Brave. Why are we so concerned? Because what happens south of us has a serious impact on us - culturally, politically, socially, economically.

This illegitimate strangle hold that the unelected power elite on both sides of the border have so pervasively inflicted upon the vast majority must come to an abrupt end. This greedy and corrupt horde could have only done this with the reception of a cart blanche, s'il vous plait go ahead from those elected to the trust of our sacred democracies. For shame! For shame! Unfortunately, these bums know no shame. Nor do they understand any semblance of true allegiance to the people and the democracies they were entrusted to serve. They worship power and money. They and their kind will never change. They will do whatever it takes to gain power and influence. The outrageousness of it all is that they honestly believe they are right and have just cause (however warped their interpretation of such) to pursue their goals no matter the cost to the people. Of course there are those who have an ingrained distain for the masses. From the many to the few is their mantra.

The largest problem I have come to understand is that our systems of education have failed to teach the universal laws of true democracy and the duties and powers each individual citizen possesses. Thus, the people are bamboozled over and over again. And it appears that bullshit may baffle brains again. Americans and Canadians are like that. Too many of us can get sucked in without bothering to really discover the issues, the candidates, and the ultimate consequences of our choices or lack thereof.

I for one, truly hope that here in the Great White North we can inherit some of the audacity to hope that Obama has called my American brothers and sisters to do. His leadership and his message is one that has been sadly lacking for far too long, not just in America, but here at home and abroad.

We have a federal election coming up this October 14th. We didn't take more than 2 years to get it going either. You folks are way off base with what you are doing. Unbelievable. Here in Canada, once the writ is dropped, it's away to the races. We have time limits and spending limits. Yet we still suffer the same pitfalls and anomalies in electing governments with integrity and the balls to stand up to the unelected power brokers and do what is right and just for the people. Let us take our hope to action and get it right this time around.

Long live freedom and democracy!
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Jim (aka EJ2) Karma-Lab Associate Combi Developer

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[Giner]

"Thus, the people are bamboozled over and over again. And it appears that bullshit may baffle brains again. Americans and Canadians are like that. Too many of us can get sucked in without bothering to really discover the issues, the candidates, and the ultimate consequences of our choices or lack thereof." - EJ2
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EJ2, man, are you ever on the ball! I can't disagree with one word of your post.

As you're well aware, complacency/apathy is a popular stance here in the Great White North. Voter turnouts are pretty abysmal. How that compares to the U.S. I don't know, but it figures heavily in what we get stuck with up here for the next while.

As I mentioned previously, the hoopla factor only serves to divert people's attention from what is really going on and cliche it may be, but people really do get the government they deserve, in Canada, the U.S., or anywhere else.

[sewa]

I have come across a very interesting blog on BBC website. Its run by a chap who rides through the US to find out people's views and attitudes before the elections. He seems to focus on small town America, which is why his site got my interest.

In one of his recent notes, he describes a story of one of local Obama supporters. After having had a malignant brain tumour removed in 2005, the guy's insurance company had billed him for 10% of his medical costs: some $40,000. He was working to pay it back when the cancer returned.

"I couldn't afford to pay any more," he recalled. "I was just going to hold a big party and say goodbye to everyone."

But the local community wouldn't let him. The town rallied round. Local painters donated artworks. The furniture store chipped in with a microwave and the golf club handed over a set of irons. An auctioneer - more used to dealing with cattle and goats - agreed to sell them at a special event. The total raised - $13,000 - was enough to ensure he could have his second operation. The guy remembered the auction with amazement.

"I think that's what small-town America is all about - that sense of community."

His wife said she didn't believe that her husband would still be alive if they had stayed at their previous home in New York.

"If we'd been back in Brooklyn, people would have been sympathetic - but I don't believe they'd have done anything like this," she added.

I have to admit that this story left me puzzeled. On one hand, this sense of self-responsibility and self-reliability is what I'm missing here in Europe, where a State all too often behaves like a nanny. I have seen this mentality in Montana (where I lived for a year) and I admire it up to a point. At the same time, the idea that the guy could die being unable to cover medical costs seems too much for me...

You can find the full story under the following link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/talkingamerica/2008/09/in_1950_ralph_edwards_the.html

sewa

[georgeinar]

Well, if one good thing is coming out of this economic crisis with banks etc. is that they're finally talking about issues again and we're not hearing about Palin's lipstick and all her international diplomacy since she can see Russia from her back porch.
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[gnbutt]

The beauty of this global web site is that we are afforded the benefit of sharing our respective opinions no matter what, 1st and foremost we are musicians but happen to live in various locations on the planet. I am a Canadian and the USA is our neighbour to the south. Irregardless of their political positions, they are probably the most generous people on the planet, they are there 1st when catrostrophies happen. Whether it is a democratic or republican body taking over leadership, they will be there when things count. We share a border but are the best of neighbours. The USA takes a lot of criticism but when times are life threatening, they will be there to help. Politics are politics, there's no winner. Whatever happens, the most important issue is that we understand and respectfully respect our differences.
My 2 cents worth
GB
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M3-73, Roland Fantom X8, Motif ES7, OMNISPHERE VST and my baby, an old Fender Rhodes 73. Hammond SK2 with Neo Mini-Vent for Organ, Korg Krome 61 with Vintage Synth collection + DSKrome, Killer Organ Package
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