Korg Forums

AntonySharmman · Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:05 am Post subject:

Let's inspect your problem first ... and then do as you wish !
I inspect DAW control that disables internal connection of tracks !
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Basspig · Full Member Joined: 29 Jan 2020 Posts: 134

Looks like this problem has become regular after start up. I'm going to try letting it sit for a couple hours and see if Styles start to work normally after warming up. I won't start Cakewalk and just let it sit idle. If it starts working, that will be interesting data. Could mean something mechanically connection wise inside the Pa5X.
This was a factory refurbished unit, looks and feels like new, but maybe there was a problem.

EDIT: After 20 minutes idling, the Styles are working again. I did nothing else. Just let the keyboard set powered on.
So when it's cold start, styles not working. After warmup, styles working.

AntonySharmman · Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:08 pm Post subject:

Basspig · Full Member Joined: 29 Jan 2020 Posts: 134

I know, but things like surface mount solder connections can change resistance when hot or cold (bad solder joints) and cause a unit to malfunction at certain temperatures.

What else could explain this time factor? Cold: it doesn't work. Warm up for a while: it works. I didn't load my DAW.

Along with the buttons starting to crack/appear with dark hair like lines in the LEDs, I'm starting to wonder about the quality control on this keyboard.

UPDATE: There is definitely a time factor involved. If I let the keyboard idle for 3/4 of an hour, the Styles plays with full accompaniment. Again today, when I powered it on, only drum part played. Any style I tried. Let sit for most of an hour and hit the play button and it's suddenly playing with all instruments as is was intended. Thinking there's either a software bug with the auto power off or a bad connection that makes contact after a little heat build up.

mstodola · Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:14 pm Post subject:

If you have bad solder joints then the unit needs to be repaired or replaced. Like Antony said, this is not a tube amplifier. Either it works or it doesn't. Antony gave you a logical scenario for troubleshooting the problem. If you don't quite understand, you need to call Korg for a service center.
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Pa4x, Oasys 76, K2000, PC3K7, Montage 8, Pa5x

Basspig · Full Member Joined: 29 Jan 2020 Posts: 134

I've notified my dealer and he notified Korg service.

Today I tried an experiment. I set up a camera pointing at the display and started up the Pa5X. Then I started play of the Style with the mixer view active, so I could see that only Drums was getting MIDI (amber flashing light) and I let it run while I went and made breakfast. I was hoping to see at which point the full ensemble starts playing. Usually it takes 45-60 mins. However after a good hour has passed, I come in and check and still playing but still only drum track. So I stop recording and stop the player. It's been another 30 mins and Style is still not playing all parts. Whatever is causing this is getting worse.

Not thrilled at all, as this is a large and heavy keyboard and the dealer is over an hour away and I no longer drive due to my age so my daughter has to take time out to drive me to the dealer.

Basspig · Full Member Joined: 29 Jan 2020 Posts: 134

I just did a complete reload of 1.21 OS and, before loading any of my saved settings, tried the Styles player. Same problem. Only the drums play. This is after a factory reset and reload of the OS freshly downloaded from Korg.

Very disappointed as I was hoping that maybe OS corruption happened and a new load of fresh OS copy might fix it, but no. Looks like going to have to schlep this behemoth back to Korg. Major disappointment here.

If it's not made in Japan, not a wise choice to buy I guess. My made in Japan Kronos is perfect and has been for many years.

Also, any pads that are not on the drum track are also not playing.

AntonySharmman · Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 10:12 pm Post subject:

Basspig · Full Member Joined: 29 Jan 2020 Posts: 134

Considering that I am on line conditioned UPS power and that backup power is powered by our solar generating plant (not grid connected), there is no possibility of power interruption. The power is on 24/7 by large 43kWH lithium iron phosphate batteries and a 18kW sinewave inverter. Much cleaner power than utility power and free of spikes caused by accidents on the roads with power poles.

For a keyboard designed for traveling gigs, where power is dirty much of the time, Korg sure dropped the ball if the keyboard is that fragile to power problems. Sounds like a major redesign is in the future, lest most of these will come back for service on a monthly basis.

AntonySharmman · Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:00 pm Post subject:

Keyboards PSU have only one weakness : power interruption , I'm a professor and advanced switching technology designer and I
ensure you that your Keyboard PSU works in a any waveform , spikes , EMF , over-voltages from 100 to 500 volts with vast input
filtering and the only sensitive case is power interruption of over 500mS , but yep this is not your case.
Motherboard Nand memory is well known chipset with excellent quality , it's just a subject of bad luck in your case , less than <0.1 ‰
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Basspig · Full Member Joined: 29 Jan 2020 Posts: 134

Considering my unit is a factory refurbished unit, I guess they didn't fix the problem very well and perhaps it was refurbished for this reason originally.

Lots of gigs experience power interruptions over 500mS. Circuit breakers trip every day on gigs. If a keyboard could be killed by mere interruption of power, there would be so many repair orders that Korg service would be swamped.

An idle keyboard should not corrupt itself if someone pulled the plug--the only time is during writing to storage or memory but at idle, no.

Something bothered me about this keyboard from the start in that regard: there is no hard power switch like on the Kronos and every other instrument I own. I don't like that something is always on when it's supposed to be off. Usually with gear like that I like to put it on a master power switch so when I shut that off, no surges can hit the equipment when not in use.

Maybe it's just a "lemon" keyboard. At any rate, going to be a major problem for me to get this thing boxed up and shipped back out. Can't lift anything due to hernias, so must get someone to help any time I need to move something like this.

AntonySharmman · Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:48 pm Post subject:

You misunderstood my point so I will repeat , If you interrupt power supply while saving data in a computing system most likely
you will corrupt SSD therefore OS and system files , if you do the same with PaSeries you will corrupt internal memory and you
have to format and reload all resources and OS in internal memory from scratch , nothing to do with live net conditions.

I always advice for more than 10 years users , that when loading OS or load resources where memory is at write mode
they must always use mini UPS systems of any type of waveform due to avoid such memory corruption case.

FYI : Korg Kronos and PaSeries use the same topology SMPS with different outputs and st-by control , the same I've mentioned
above are also valid for Kronos.
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Basspig · Full Member Joined: 29 Jan 2020 Posts: 134

That is obvious, but if the keyboard is being played (not saving resources to memory) and the power goes out in a stage concert, it should not damage the data.

Now this is really strange:

My wife was playing the keyboard just now. It's been on since 10am and it is now 7pm. A few minutes ago, the Styles were not working. Wife plays the keyboard on the default "My Setting" which is German Grand, and after she was done, I go and hit play on the Styles and it is now WORKING NORMALLY.

If the memory is corrupt, why is it suddenly working?

AntonySharmman · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:11 am Post subject:

This changes the game ... your motherboard has to be repaired !
If was badly treated by any means (refurbished you called it) then anything might had happened from moved strip cable up to chips' pins detachment ...
Visit official service center ... nothing more to speculate , good luck !
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Basspig · Full Member Joined: 29 Jan 2020 Posts: 134

My hunch (as an amp repair tech) is that there is something intermittent electrically. Although I'm also starting to see a correlation between the Styles working from 7pm onward. I'll admit until today, I never tried to use the keyboard much at all before 7pm.

A loose ribbon cable (such cables are the devil) sounds about right. I am NOT liking the notion of having to schlep this big thing to a service shop for warranty service. But as a factory refurbished keyboard, it is possible that they didn't fix whatever problem plagued it in it's earlier life before I bought it.

Whatever the matter, it is working fine right now. I AM getting curious about the correlation between working fine after 7pm these past few nights. Earlier, I didn't even power on the keyboard until about 6:30pm most nights and I usually didn't start playing til about 7pm or later. Going to keep that in mind the next time it stops working. If it consistently starts working at 7pm a couple nights in a row, I'm going to be scratching my head!

EDIT: I left it running overnight, disabled the auto power off, and it is still working this morning. I'm going to try power cycling the keyboard now that it's fully up to temperature. If it stops working, then I know it's not temperature related. If it works after reboot, then I can reasonably assume it's temperature related.