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Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

Over on the german site there is the Korg pa4x musikant, which comes (in an ugly color) with 200+ extra sounds...

Yet, the instrument still has the 400MB room for user samples...

Meaning the instrument would have more memmory for sounds then the 5,1GB available to the normal version..

Combined with previous rumors about sample streaming being a part of the instrument, i got the following hint.

Sample streaming could still be build into this instrument but its not available to user samples... However Korg could be aiming to sell expansion packs online with sounds that load directly to the Pa4x hard drive and become new.. Those 200 musikant samples must reside somewhere...

If Korg could really start selling these expansion packs, and from time to time give some free new sounds to their users, it could be great... But if they do, they should also open up their expansion library to 3rd party sound designers, as for the Kronos, that is still where the best sounds come from...

Same seems to go for the musikant styles, there is still 1248 internall memmory available for user styles...

I will be keeping an eye on this..

Dikikeys · Guest

I haven't found any reference to whether the Musikant sounds actually stream, though...

You are making an assumption about that, aren't you (or did I miss something)?

This may simply be an ADDITIONAL RAM module, not the Korg ROM system, might it not?

siebenhirter · Platinum Member Joined: 13 Oct 2011 Posts: 1843

Dikikeys · Guest

Sample streaming relies on a VERY tightly controlled data structure for the samples compared to RAM. At least in a hardware product like a keyboard, that doesn't have the data access and transfer speeds of a full computer. Not only does the sample header (the preloaded data) have to be known exactly where it resides, but the rest of the body of the data needs to be contiguous, and in an easily retrieved data address.

Arrangers simply do not have the data bandwidth to have full random access streaming that MUCH faster drives and data pipes allow in computers (and even there, data fragmentation can make streaming live difficult to keep reliable when heavily used).

It is this that leads me to the speculation that, while the Korg ROM sounds are allowed to be packed into the RAM in a controlled fashion, to make streaming practical, third party sounds will not. So, I very much expect Musikant extra sounds use the same RAM system that Users will have. In other words, no streaming. It is probably no more than an extra RAM access point for an additional RAM block.

This DOES bring up the possibility, though, that at some point in the future, someone could figure out how Musikant jacked in this extra RAM, and offer its access point for general User RAM. Maybe even Korg themselves, now they are seeing the possible consequences of not offering enough regular RAM for PA3X RAM users to add their complete SET, and thus make the move impossible without losing their carefully crafted sample data.

It is interesting to see how Korg have slipped here... or did they? While the few with RAM requirements that exceed the PA4X's limits seem to be very vocal here, are they actually a significant percentage of Korg's actual customers? Or have Korg done FAR more market research, and decided that there were not enough of them to make it necessary to expand the PA4X's RAM to PA3X levels, especially when you consider that possibly a large number of them are simply using a ton of it up to add maybe a better grand piano, which the new 5GB of streaming ROM (or however much it is) will make moot?

If the ROM sounds get improved in certain crucial areas, perhaps most of those with 512MB of compressed data in a PA4X will find that they no longer need as much simply to improve on sounds already in the PA4X that are massively larger than they used to be.

I can understand how those that use the entire 100% of the user RAM for sounds that do not exist in ANY form whatsoever already will be in a bit of a bind, but honestly... What percentage of Korg's total user base is that? Korg certainly don't seem to think enough... Confused

AntonySharmman · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:29 am Post subject: Re: musikant samples

A few information for all of you !

Pa4X Musikant comes with 200 extra sounds not extra waveforms (MS), mostly like Pa3X Musikant !

Asena · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:20 am Post subject:

HALELUYA Anthony Wink

So we are back in 90,s again, really good for the people who las YMCA ha? Hehehe
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Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

AntonySharmman · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:57 am Post subject:

Bachus
I haven't disassembled yet Pa4X OS since it doesn't exist even own Pa4X service manual to be more specific , but as a
very experienced programmer with knowledge in PaSeries & Kronos OS this is a reasonable speculation up to today , judging
from already Korg applied technology and this is also the only proper way to apply DFD technology (seen already in Kronos) !

I've already posted in other threads the question of why this existing feature is not applied for User PCM from the debut
presentation of this flagship arranger and also considering that stars of " 400MB** " future change without notice options
has been disappeared from specifications document , leads me to conclusion that this feature is meant to appear in a
future model , maybe completely out of PaSeries Brand ! I hope to be wrong !

The fact at this point is that I will not intent to downgrade the 512 Mb development level of commercial Pa3X 512 Mb packs
like Producer & Platinum Edition , so I will not publish products for Pa4X in current state !!!
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Bachus · Platinum Member Joined: 23 Apr 2006 Posts: 3127

AntonySharmman · Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject:

Well , I can be compromised with some Pa3X features lack , If we could gain the overall sample management and disk streaming !
(I don't really want to discuss anymore this 128 polyphony "Global" issue for any keyboard I use in year 2015 ...)
We need to explore deeper new Pa3X FXs to find ouτ the real pros and cons , since also in Pa3X one effect was frequently excluded
under certain effect variations but the important lack for me is the elimination of Digital Output , that is a very important feature for
Musicians with advanced gear as external DACs and ProTools !

But generally , the normal End-Users should be happy with the much better factory international library of Pa4X that has
totally "defeated" T5 & Pa3X and maybe Kronos factory HD1 Library (except pianos) & 400 Mb custom PCM library that most of you
will never fill it up and work like the way you were used in Pa3X , with a modern Arranger and legend PaSeries features !

For me this is not enough ... I just wanted the expected features to upgrade in this !
My commercial plan for next arranger was to get rid of any useless factory resources , taking the overall control of 1 Gb librarian Ram
with streaming from disk feature and load my Pro 6 GB resources that have been already prepared for that purpose , targeting Pro
Musicians that need a 2015 workstation sampler and an arranger , two in one ... Postponed once again ... Sad

_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Dikikeys · Guest

I still fail to understand the need for digital outs...

Trust me on this one. You have been listening to hit records for DECADES that were tracked without digital outs on the keyboards. They don't make any difference at all. A teeny, tiny, almost indistinguishable difference between the analog and digital outputs is NOT going to turn your song from a hit to a bust!

Are they handy? Sure. Are they necessary? Not in the slightest! Twisted Evil

AntonySharmman · Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject:

Though Pa3X DAC is one of the best I've met , when you'll design and develop DACs as I did , then you might understand the difference !
But till then try a 4-5 K DAC with your keyboards that might support it ...
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Dikikeys · Guest

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail! Twisted Evil

If you design DAC's, well, maybe they seem like something of paramount importance.

To most people simply PLAYING keyboards for a living (or just enjoyment), maybe it ain't that big a deal... Wink

One thing I guarantee... The vast majority of people that play arrangers listen to (and play) music from the era before digital anything, let alone digital outputs on their keyboard! If it was good enough for everyone from Herbie Hancock to Thomas Dolby, it's good enough for me!

Aren't there MUCH more important things to focus on?

What would you prefer Korg to focus on? Streaming samples? More MFX? A full B3 sim? Or do you want them to focus on better DA's? One thing I guarantee is, they can't do it ALL...

Hopefully, they have a better set of priorities than some of us here do, but we need to be careful. If they put a bunch of R&D and money into better DA's instead of more musical functions, few will be happy.

AntonySharmman · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:15 am Post subject:

Diki , You know my feelings from past that I don't have time to waste for lectures ... only to help members !
Bachus asked for my opinion and read carefully what is already written !
We all have our primary features priorities up to a point , that are also mentioned before , but a step beyond , secondary
priorities differ for everyone proportionally to his Knowledge , for instance you're looking for those 15 Mb due to become
famous , I'm looking for High-End DACs as a Producer and sound developer !
So don't bother it , just write down your own opinion about topic ... it seems a far wiser option !
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Dikikeys · Guest