Korg Forums

[AntonySharmman]

[Dikikeys]

That's funny... I've worked with quite a few of the top ones. Not ONE of them had any issues with simply taking the line outs into a D/I box and off to the board.

But hey, what do THEY know, right?

Every last one of them were 100% focused on the MUSIC, the performance, how the parts fit in the arrangement, how the sounds complimented the song. Maybe that's WHY they were the top ones?

[AntonySharmman]

Then you'd better ask them , but as usually you don't deserve my attention , so don't push
your luck having even the slightest thought that you can troll people that are bad news for you "ok" !
Dismissed ...
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

[Dikikeys]

Asked and answered. You can focus on bit depth all you like. The good ones don't.

They are focused on the music. Mind you, most of them don't design DAC's, either! Their full time job is PRODUCING.

Class dismissed...

[Bachus]

[Sharp]

Mp3 is the most listened to format in the world, which is below CD Standards and people listen to this format mostly on headphones that colour the sound so that it sounds nothing at all like the producers originally intended.

Try a popular pair of headphones like Beats Audio and you will see. They pump artificial base EQ into the recordings.

Even in studio conditions, most people find very hard to tell the difference between a 24 bit 48kHz signal verses 24 bit 96kHz.

Sames goes for DAC's. So long as the ground noise is ultra low and it doesn't colour the sound, that's the main thing, but it's also in anyways pointless since people will mostly hear the recording in mp3 format on headphones that colour the sound greatly.

Go figure.

Regards
Sharp.
_________________

[AntonySharmman]

Bachus the truth is that even moderate Music Producers by definition use the best Digital to Analog & Analog to Digital converters
since the famous studio they prefer to cooperate with , already use them for many years , so they don't really care about how
they manage it but concentrate on the fact that those studios have a crystal clear sound due to produce & mastering their work
extremely easy to understand but I'm afraid that more than 15 Mb of "Brain Ram" are required !

Also since parallel with Music studies , I own a Phd in Electronics Engineering as the primary way of living in that time , I felt
obliged to study and develop everything that affect sonic results from High-End preamplifiers , speakers up to Digital
converters especially when before 20 years I discovered that all home and some professional "called" digital sound
devices are totally garbage !

You'll be surprised to know that the majority of people even the majority of Musicians have never heard the real dimension
of analog sound before converted with bad quality DACs , even in 192 KHz sampling rate , almost useless when the heart of
system (DAC) is insufficient !
Vinyl lovers are obsessed with this original and noisy analog sound , without really knowing why and never use a home CD
player ... proved as a big truth !
As Sharp said , go figure what the majority of young people is listening to ... they will never hear the magic that old sound
dudes have grown up with , but they are surely excluded from such an article , as also any MP3 sound disaster format !

Just FYI all my 10K home audio devices have laser digital outputs and a high cost hand made DA-AD Converter distributes
sound between them in order to meet my high stantards audio preferences !

I know that Musicians ought to deal only with Music Creation but it's also required to know the real dimension of the vintage
pure analog sound before any digital convertion !
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

[Eduardo_Arg]

Hi Antony:

I know that Musicians ought to deal only with Music Creation but it's also required to know the real dimension of the vintage
pure analog sound before any digital convertion ! (as Antony said)

+10
Eduardo
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Korg Kronos 2 88 - Korg PA4x 76 - Roland Fantom 08 - Korg N1R Sound Module - Korg 05RW Sound Module - Roland UM550 Edirol Midi Patchbay Amp pair SWR California Blonde II

[Dikikeys]

This whole off topic thing got started by someone asking if the PA4X had gone 24bit or was 16. He couldn't tell...

That in itself has got to tell you something!

All in all, the bit depth is the LAST thing to worry about. As Anthony tells us, the QUALITY of the converter can have a greater influence on the sound than the bit depth. A boutique high quality 16 bit DAC may very well outperform a budget 24bit one.

But all of that takes a back seat to the samples themselves. If the transients are squashed, if the multisample matching is poor, if the loops are too short, a 24bit converter (if a good one) only exposes those shortcomings even more than a 16bit one!

You take a bunch of old Emu sampled sounds (done in the 12bit days) and play them through a 24 bit converter, they won't sound any better. Not significantly, at least. If they were great samples in the first place, they will still sound great. And if they weren't, playing them at a greater bit depth (if, for instance you could find the original recordings) won't help much if any.

The DAC is at the END of the chain for a reason! Everything else up to that point has to be amazing before the difference between a high end DAC and a consumer one will help at all!

As I said, to a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I guarantee one thing... If you go into a session with a keyboard, find a sound the producer loves, if your keyboard doesn't have digital outs, he won't give a RATS!

[Asena]

So The GOD Ones is You?




Goodness than ? Why so angry.
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[AntonySharmman]

Just forgive his "knowledge" ... he thinks that synths and workstations (especially the antiques) are the means we produce Music
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

[Bachus]

[Dikikeys]

But not the other way round, Bachus. Once recorded as a 12 bit sample, a higher resolution DAC won't change the sound.

Perhaps your English is what is leading to the disagreement, Anthony, but all I have tried to point out is that, in my experience of working with some highly regarded producers, not ONE of them has ever cared in the slightest whether my keyboards have digital or analog outputs. In fact, on a couple of occasions when using my Kurzweil (which does have digital outs), they simply got me to use D/I boxes and the standard analog outputs rather than wasting studio time on clocking and troubleshooting the digital outs.

Contrary to your rude and condescending posts, the REAL producers I have worked with weren't fixated on how the signal got recorded, as long as it was decently clean. And, contrary to your rude and condescending posts, I know (and use) some of the latest digital gear (and VSTi's, etc.) and when the equipment is already hooked up digitally, I have no issue using it.

In over 40 years of studio experience, not ONE single producer has ever complained that my keyboard did not have a digital out, and have often eschewed it even when it DID have one. I tell you one thing... someone turns up at YOUR studio with a keyboard that doesn't have one (say a PA4X!), you aren't going to bitch about it, either. You will simply get on with the session.

If you are any good, at least!

Now, can you dial down your condescension a bit, before I start to get ready to ask you how many greats YOU have worked with (naming yourself is hardly anything more than ego!)?

The thing I have been trying to point out on this thread is, the loss of the digital outs on the PA4X is probably the LEAST important omission. A trip through the PA4X's DAC's and then into a pro quality ADC on its way to a DAW (I have used Apogees, Grace's and Manley converters, amongst many others) doesn't worry most producers or engineers.

There are so many OTHER things far more important.

[AntonySharmman]

This is your last reference in me, so just a few words that you might understand and then discussion is over with you forever !
1) You're stacked with outdated electronic keyboards or Vst , but ... I do not work only with digital keyboards as a Music
Conductor but mostly with native real instruments , Drums , brass & strings full sections and that's I have in mind when talking
about DAC quality independently of any sampling rate & depth and not the garbage 80's fake samplers.
2) You're not in the slightest position to point anything and to nobody , even to estimate my knowledge in any level , 'cause
in simple words you'll be always hired and I will be always in charge , if you get what I mean.
3) You must realize that you waste our time reading your useless posts all over the forum and also wasting valuable pages
space of forum , so do something useful like helping members or just create Music as you claim with your "famous" producers.
4) and as last , the word "dismissed" has the military meaning concerning grown up men and not the school boys you
probably mentally still belong to , so please let us in peace and follow the real meaning of this word , for God's sake !
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

[paul]