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Pa4X frozen in Live Gig
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musiccankill
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Joined: 30 May 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aripearlmusic wrote:
The compression algorithm source code on OS V3 is different from OS V2. It allows compression of samples twice as long as the compression limit on OS V2.2. Thats just one of many changes to they way the keyboard treats and stores the PCM. PCM which stands for Pulse Code Modulation is a filing and streaming system for the Samples to be able to recall and play them in real-time. The tech was developed for telecommunications. If one sample in the PCM stream is corrupted or missing it will disrupt the sample streaming and cause a variety of issues like a restart or a freeze or even further corrupted of otherwise good data. Instead of arguing for not fixing your set (by removing corrupted samples and resaving everything custom or modified into 4x format) like it's korgs fault you should either pay someone competent to do it for you or fix it yourself. Everyone i know who makes and uses only their own sounds and styles has no complaints about the new OS besides the color scheme (until they do their first gig with stage lighting and see the advantage of it)


No , the compression HASN'T changed...
It is the EXACT same code.
Compression only significantly changed ONCE. From pa800/2x and older (factory was compressed) to pa3x and after, where they added 1 more parameter to get better dynamic range than before.
As for the rest, its not the users fault if the keyboard somehow corrupts the data but my opinion is that it is NOT the data loaded the problem in these as they were working fine all this time.Except from that,to speak technically in programming words, it is a simple try-catch scenario to avoid reboots even if it was the data causing the problem..reboots are most probably overflows due to the MANY things that changed internally for the keyboard to allow the user to build new streaming libraries without much effort and as a result what the user was doing almost hasn't changed even with so heavy modification on the linux modules and application itself.
Reboots will be fixed i believe sooner or later , as long as there is a way to replicate them.. I mean if it reboots in songbook and in style record for example and we can only replicate on purpose the songbook reboot but not the style record one, fixing the songbook one will most probably not fix the other one...
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Instead of arguing for not fixing your set (by removing corrupted samples and resaving everything custom or modified into 4x format) like it's korgs fault you should either pay someone competent to do it for you or fix it yourself. Everyone i know who makes and uses only their own sounds and styles has no complaints about the new OS besides the color scheme (until they do their first gig with stage lighting and see the advantage of it)


Restarts happen even if you don't load any sounds,PCM,samples,styles,global settings

-So,bugs and restarts happen if you use your all of your keyboard's functions,and not just some of it.
If you close it and store it ,i will last even more.

- I also make my own styles and sounds my friend,and they work great,
Can't say the same about the keyboard though .

- It's funny when some users try to make us look fools,when they don't even have a clue what we are talking about here ,but it's ok, i got used to it ,i just laugh with their answers....

-What exactly you can't understand when we say that bugs exist and happen even if keyboard is in factory state?(and yes,that means also carefully updated and factory reset )

-Why don't you try to replicate some of the bugs instead of mocking on us?

-I was started using algorithms and sysex for microtuning or editing sounds when even there weren't any physical parameters on keyboards to do so,even for graphics on old LCD keyboards' screens,or even games on them,
so yes...i know what i am talking about.....
and i really can't stop laughing when i read some answers in here,
it's just ridiculous.....
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Aripearlmusic



Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 29
Location: BROOKLYN NY

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tried several times to replicate said bugs and haven't been able to trigger even one of them. As far as the compression algorithm changing i would like you to try and compress a 16bit 4mb sample in OS-V2. It could be 44.1khz or 48khz. You can compress a 4mb sample in OS-V3. I program many of my beats in Protools 12.5 HD Ultimate including the control and program changes and have sampled over a half a milllion sounds since i got i got my first korg 6 years ago. Can you do stuttering style SideChain compression in your styles? How about triggering an insert effect only on one variation?
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musiccankill
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aripearlmusic wrote:
I have tried several times to replicate said bugs and haven't been able to trigger even one of them. As far as the compression algorithm changing i would like you to try and compress a 16bit 4mb sample in OS-V2. It could be 44.1khz or 48khz. You can compress a 4mb sample in OS-V3. I program many of my beats in Protools 12.5 HD Ultimate including the control and program changes and have sampled over a half a milllion sounds since i got i got my first korg 6 years ago. Can you do stuttering style SideChain compression in your styles? How about triggering an insert effect only on one variation?


You managed to load a 4mb sample in v2?
Here i copy from the owners manual...
"If the sample exceeds the maximum size allowed (1,048,576 samples, corresponding to 1 Megasample, either mono or stereo), it will be truncated. A warning will appear in the display"
1Megasample (or Mword) in 16bit is 2Mbytes so no way to load (and save) more than that according to the manual and as far as i remember from my tests this is actually what happens...
Maybe you are talking about the size it takes in preload buffer which has nothing at all to do with compression...
Try cleaning all the samples from keyboard in v2 and v3 and load a sample that can fit lets say 500kb on each version and compress...
It should occupy exactly the same space..
There is a chance they added another compression on the .pcm files which are getting created when saving as set for these big samples to save memory space on usb and save quicker.Even in this case, this is not the sound compression , but file compression like zip as i think i saw in some files a while back when i first installed and was exploring 3.0 ,so the internal playback/sound compression/decompression is exactly the same.
I am sure about that as i made a lot of tests with old v2 compression algo and newer files and they all work and sound like in v3.0 played on keyboard.
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~~~The best keyboard for any player is the one that fits his/her needs!~~~

Korg keyboards owned now: pa4x, pa700, pa300, havian30, krome
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Aripearlmusic



Joined: 04 Jun 2018
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Location: BROOKLYN NY

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So a 16bit stereo interleaved wav of 1,048,575 samples which will still show up as 4mb that then gets saved as mono L&R samples of 2mb each will compress in V3 but not in V2
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musiccankill
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aripearlmusic wrote:
So a 16bit stereo interleaved wav of 1,048,575 samples which will still show up as 4mb that then gets saved as mono L&R samples of 2mb each will compress in V3 but not in V2


Please read again the manual...
It defines that by saying that it doesn't matter if it is stereo or not.A single file can't have more than 1M samples...1M samples for 16bit samples is 2mb.
Also the interleaved attribute you put in the sentence has nothing to do with the size and/or data handling in pa....
Haven't tried to import so big samples in v3 but i think it is not possible still as the KMP file which contains all the size related variables , hasn't changed (no longer numbers added/variables are still the same length so can contain up to the same data).I may be wrong with that so if you have such a big sample that can be imported in v3 but not in v2 please send me a link in my inbox to try it here (i have both v2 and v3 os so i can test on both)..
Anyway the compression is still the same lossy 2:1 format, nothing has changed with that.
They may have allowed longer samples on v3 as the samples are now getting streamed and with so much memory there is no point for such a restriction but i currently (without deeper research on that "issue" (which is not really an issue)) can't see a way of doing that based on what i have found about the kmp structure.
Wish i had insight on the PA code so i would be able to carry out more tests but thats just a dream...

Still have to make the songbook test and will do as soon as possible...
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a light-hearted note......

Oh!!! Having a bad time here.
We are voting today (Federal election - or should I say "Feral Election") this is where we can actually choose which end of a rope we would like to be hung by.
Anyhow, decided to smooth out my day and have a good play on the PA4X - great!! Left it all running and went for some dinner after which I found my PA4X shutdown!!! Twisted Evil

Well that did it for me!!! Fed up! Wondering if someone will swap their Genos with me! Totally over Korg!

BUT.... I'm all better now I've switched off the "auto-shutdown" option Confused Confused

Back to the 2012 Shiraz Very Happy
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musiccankill
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karmathanever wrote:
On a light-hearted note......

Oh!!! Having a bad time here.
We are voting today (Federal election - or should I say "Feral Election") this is where we can actually choose which end of a rope we would like to be hung by.
Anyhow, decided to smooth out my day and have a good play on the PA4X - great!! Left it all running and went for some dinner after which I found my PA4X shutdown!!! Twisted Evil

Well that did it for me!!! Fed up! Wondering if someone will swap their Genos with me! Totally over Korg!

BUT.... I'm all better now I've switched off the "auto-shutdown" option Confused Confused

Back to the 2012 Shiraz Very Happy

Hahahaha nice one!
When i started reading , i though " He can't be serious!!" and i was about to hit reply and say "check the auto shutdown switch!"
And you weren't of course!
I really like the pa4x as it is now..Even pa3x was left with bugs (for example it was hanging at random points when creating a style etc)..
Even security software programs have bug and operating systems in security devices...
I believe korg will fix any serious problems with 4x!
Wish the reboots were happening on mine easily as i remember there is a kernel crash report file inside which would help the developers very much...
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kleant



Joined: 10 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naive self called sound engineers showing off and giving advice on how to solve os bugs with changing custom settings or parameters! So pathetic and so delusional! Don't forget a "factory restore" Smile

If they say I don't have this bug or I can not replicate it I fully support and understand. But please don't claim for sure that this bugs does not exists if you don't really know or you don't have the knowledge about it and try to showing off by advertising your stupid custom sets that you sell and give misleading instructions for something that you don't really know or understand in the first place.

Now for all others interested in having a Bug free NEXT OS I have made a little clip for the PAD Synch BUG.

View it here;
https://vimeo.com/336986409

Just to make it clear;
YES its the latest NEXT OS V3.0.1
YES a Factory RESTORE has been made prior to this
YES nothing custom user resources has been loaded

For some Factory styles the PAD SYNCH is more apparent than the others but I have tried on several friends PA4X on all have the same BUG so its not only on 1 keyboard! For some custom user resources the PAD SYNCH is even more bad.

If you thinking of replying with some stupid instructions please save it for your self not needed all we need it's an Bug free Pa4X Next OS! I did write that the above problem does not happen on OS V2 so its clearly an NEXT OS 3.0.1 bug which can not be fixed from users by changing parameters etc this is wrong... An OS bug can only be fixed from Korg by OS update.
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

musiccankill wrote:
Wish the reboots were happening on mine easily as i remember there is a kernel crash report file inside which would help the developers very much...


Perhaps you could detail how those with the reboots could send the crash report to Korg and perhaps post it here so technical minds like Anthony who may not have the problem could take a look and see if there's a clue to what the issue is..?
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korg1
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two friends called me today,complaining about sync problem...They wanted to know if it happens to me.

The truth is that i try to hit them also in sync,maybe that's why it happens to me occasionally,but i've noticed that it happens,and either i have to change it's cue or whatever i do i am not able to sync it properly all times.

What happened today during live gig was that i had to press Tap tempo reset button while some pads were already playing among the style,and when i did that,they went totally off beat all of them.

Something else that happened for the first time too,was that some songbook entries played the wrong rythm,while when searched for themthe second time and pressed them,they worked fine...

It was like songbook lost it's way to the right style for a while...
Maybe it was just something due to electricity voltage?I don't know,just a thought
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musiccankill
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korghelper wrote:
musiccankill wrote:
Wish the reboots were happening on mine easily as i remember there is a kernel crash report file inside which would help the developers very much...


Perhaps you could detail how those with the reboots could send the crash report to Korg and perhaps post it here so technical minds like Anthony who may not have the problem could take a look and see if there's a clue to what the issue is..?


It is not something a user can or should do...
Also it would void the warranty of the keyboard as the keyboard needs modification to access that file.
I m not even sure if it still exists in v3.0+
I think it would be wise for korg to release 3.0.1(or the next version) patched to create a crash log/dump into the USER area so it is easier for issues to get identified by them..
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Korg keyboards owned now: pa4x, pa700, pa300, havian30, krome
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export-B
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Just to let you know. Today again, during a short pause, the automatic shutdown and power on. (PA4X 76, International, V 3.0.1). Slowly starts to worry me.
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BR
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

musiccankill wrote:
I think it would be wise for korg to release 3.0.1(or the next version) patched to create a crash log/dump into the USER area so it is easier for issues to get identified by them..

+1, well said.
I think it would be wise and more efficient for debugging if Korg can
create a crash log/dump and make it possible for users (for us) to report or send it back to Korg,
like most of the Software/Apps we use on different devices, computers tablets, etc...
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D575
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BR wrote:
musiccankill wrote:
I think it would be wise for korg to release 3.0.1(or the next version) patched to create a crash log/dump into the USER area so it is easier for issues to get identified by them..

+1, well said.
I think it would be wise and more efficient for debugging if Korg can
create a crash log/dump and make it possible for users (for us) to report or send it back to Korg,
like most of the Software/Apps we use on different devices, computers tablets, etc...
most definitely a logical move and that includes if I am going to invest in the next new replacement model when it comes...clearly this would benefit both sides of the process.
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