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Pa4X frozen in Live Gig
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armaan



Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject: Sudden restart persists on V3.1 Reply with quote

I have already reported the sudden and unexpected restart issue on the PA4X potential bug sticky section several weeks ago. The sudden restarts persists and now it happens more frequently. I wanted to share my experience in hopes of assisting Korg engineers in pinpointing the problem with their new V3.1 OS. I have encountered the restart under the following circumstances:

1. Record/Edit styles or pads. When I move in and out of the Record/Edit style page the keyboard restarts occasionally. Additionally sometimes when the Style Edit selection is pressed the keyboard will not open the style for editing -- this happened several times today and I had to restart the keyboard.

2. When playing fast arpeggios the keyboard occasionally restarts (before the restart the screen goes dark, audible clicking sounds are heard) This is interesting -- playing arpeggios with styles (both factory or custom styles/pads) however, I can not replicate this problem consistently. It happens randomly. Not sure if the CPU can handle the new OS???

Hope Korg fixes this serious issue soon.
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korg1
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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best solution that worked for me is to go back to V3.00 .
You will still have restart problems if you push it hard,but you might be lucky and have none,at least when you play live.

You might face some restarts especially when connect/disconnect HD or while editing style or songbook
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BR
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Joined: 19 Oct 2004
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally bought a UPS for my Pa4X. I started using it so far so good.
I just want to make sure if I bought the right model and also would appreciate it if somebody can confirm that it's good enough for my keyboard.
Can I connect my two QSC K10 to this UPS at the same time with my Pa4X?

Here it is: CyberPower SE450G1
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Eduardo_Arg
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Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 251
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Br:

Although i'm not a technician, i don't recommend to conect a pair of QSC 10 + your keyboard to that UPS in anyway.- QSC power consuption is over UPS power rate.-
My recomendation connect your keyboards only to UPS unit.-
In my case i use an UPS only to connect my keyboards.- Amps (a pair of SWR California Blondee II) are connected to a power protector.- My aps power consuption is nearly 200 Wts. each.
Hope this helps you.-
With regards.
Eduardo
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BR
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Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 1100
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eduardo_Arg wrote:
Hi Br:
Although i'm not a technician, i don't recommend to conect a pair of QSC 10 + your keyboard to that UPS in anyway.
Eduardo
Thanks Eduardo for your input.
I am wondering if I can connect my QSC K10's to the right outlets (in the picture below) where it mentions "SURGE PROTECTED OUTLETS",
where there is no Battery consummation.

Commercial Photography
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Eduardo_Arg
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi BR:

I've read all specifications about Cyber Power, and that unit is recomended for PC.- Take in count that QSC manage more power that what CyberPower can handle, so for live i wont recomend you to use it.- In you place i should make an indenpendant sourge protection line to provide energy to both QSC and use CyberPower for your keyboards, mixer, effects units, etc.- This way is how i use my equipboard on live, so i have continuum power on programable hardware (keyboard, mixer, effects rack, and in-ear system).-
Take in count that all these hardware handle very low power consuption.-
If test QSC before buying my SWR, and they are really powerfull (1000 wts. each) and sounds rich and crystal clear; bass are really deep so you don't need to add a subwoofer unit.- Enjoy them.-
With regards.
Eduardo
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AntonySharmman
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BR wrote:

I am wondering if I can connect my QSC K10's to the right outlets (in the picture below) where it mentions "SURGE PROTECTED OUTLETS",
where there is no Battery consummation.

Self powered loudspeakers' PSU is a switching power supply that rectifies and completely filters any sparkles and fluctuation of net power supply ,
there is no use to connect them there although the standalone surge protector plugs are just a by-pass filter of high voltage sparkles and can
support many amperes since it depends only on cables diameter and connection plug power.
We never connect PA systems of KWs on UPS , only mixers/pre-amp and our main keyboard gear.
UPS in some cases might change the whole behavior of Pa4X or any keyboard in places where net power invisible fluctuations
might occur and the ultimate tool due to safely upgrade OS.

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Aripearlmusic
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Joined: 04 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pad synch issue is because it is set to continued instead of beat and it is unquantized. The first midi event in some of them is not even on the first beat or close to it. The finger snap starts from 1.1.381 for example.
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Aripearlmusic
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that korg opened a pandora's box by using the word "bug". In order to call something in the software a bug you must make sure you are doing everything by the book. Using sounds or styles from unqualified designers will mess up your system. Loading an older global after an update will also cause problems. Not deleting duplicate notes or mistakenly entered CC data puts extra stress on the keyboard. Poor gain staging or improperly cut loops on loaded samples or simply not knowing how to load or save sounds or properly convert sounds from older models after loading them are all things that i see all the time. I have over 50 korg customers so yeah im a "so called professional sound designer"😂
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aripearlmusic wrote:
I think that korg opened a pandora's box by using the word "bug".

Korg's reference to "bug" is constant and correct - I can't think of a different term to use when it comes to computer-related problems which are a product-related fault.
Aripearlmusic wrote:
In order to call something in the software a bug you must make sure you are doing everything by the book.

I put this exact description in all the bug-report topics - 100% agree - this is when a mis-understanding and appreciation of any software troubleshooting, fixing, Q/A and re-testing creates arguments and unrealistic expectations.
Aripearlmusic wrote:
Using sounds or styles from unqualified designers will mess up your system.

I've tried many 3rd-party resources products on my Korg arrangers over the past 20+ years and not really had a problem - the question is:- how do you identify an "unqualified designer"?
Aripearlmusic wrote:
Loading an older global after an update will also cause problems

Fortunately Korg have now added software checks to prevent you from loading older GLOBAL versions - yes, this was a serious issue a while ago.

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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Aripearlmusic
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An unqualified designer would be the guys who made most of the free stuff going around that some people are trying to sell for a quick buck on ebay. Global from V2 still loads in V3 just like the global files from the first 3x OS still loads in the latest 3x OS. Just because it gives you a warning doesnt mean that everyone reads it. Most of the keyboardists ive dealt with have never read the manual and do not even know how to open a zip file simply because they are too lazy to read. The same idiots are using a mixer for 5 years without knowing how to mix because "it's too hard". Should they have a say in what is a bug?
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES - sadly there are many unqualified designers who are trying to make money too - you know, "20,000 styles for the PA4X for $19.99" typical e-bay garbage.
We are fortunate to have some really experienced and trustworthy designers as forum members (e.g. Antony Sharmman - and others!!!)
Quote:
Should they have a say in what is a bug?


Hmmm.... interesting question......

I believe that if one spends $1000's on any product and doesn't take the time to understand or learn it whether it be from manuals or help from others, then yes, maybe it's "case closed" when it comes to resolving their problems. There is also the serious issue of not having documentation in native languages.

Of course we are bombarded with technology in just about everything and unfortunately a lot of manufacturers have no empathy with non-technical clients.
This is where customer support can make or break a company.

But clients should be able to report what they consider to be a problem and get acceptable assistance even if it's a reference to a manual.

(BTW, Microsoft invented "bugs" Wink )

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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Aripearlmusic
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of tech support and ignorant users..... I just finished an almost 2 hour call for a simple procedure known as loading a set simply because they are incapable of following 3 simple steps. I rest my case
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korg1
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But you probably didn't spend any time to read here,that bugs happen even if you are doing everything by the book....

I can tell you that bugs like pad sync or restart,happened with factory resources ONLY,and tested for3 weeks.
Nothing was loaded on keyboard,just factory Os', no extra styles or sounds or global or direct set.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
bugs happen even if you are doing everything by the book


Yep!! ...and they are the ones I am most interested in - the ones that clearly do not conform to the product's specifications.

..but... in the meantime, I am absolutely loving this keyboard

Hang in there..... Very Happy
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