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Musik Messe 2017, a new low for Keyboardists
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Musik Messe 2017, a new low for Keyboardists Reply with quote

Not just the innovation at musikmesse 2017 where it comes to keyboards has hit a new low..

So what have we seen...

A new Nord Stage, that is more like a Car or mobile phone update..
A new Waldorf Synth, looking very nice.. but based on the same old technollogy under the hood
A new Arturia Masterkeyboard, low end, nothing innovative at all
A new Dexibell Combo Organ that sounds really Cheesy..

Where is the innovation that a market requires to survive?

None at all...
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Jan1
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The keyboard market may be dull, but I remain impressed by AKAI's new MPC generation.

I don't know if anyone has seen the SonicState presentation of the new MPC-X, but if not, I can recommend watching it just to see how AKAI managed to come up with a workstation which not only does a great job on its own, but it seamlessly integrates with the computer (incl. third party software) without giving the user the feeling of being switched from stand-alone mode to controller mode.
They have come up with a really great way to combine the best of both worlds, very nice work from AKAI.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jan1 wrote:
The keyboard market may be dull, but I remain impressed by AKAI's new MPC generation.

I don't know if anyone has seen the SonicState presentation of the new MPC-X, but if not, I can recommend watching it just to see how AKAI managed to come up with a workstation which not only does a great job on its own, but it seamlessly integrates with the computer (incl. third party software) without giving the user the feeling of being switched from stand-alone mode to controller mode.
They have come up with a really great way to combine the best of both worlds, very nice work from AKAI.


Many of those UI elements would fit perfectly on a soundless keyboard workstation where VST's running in a Dedicated VST host would be the soundsource..

Did you have a look at that screen and the 16 encoders... really first class on that MPC

Now, if Akai created a VST host that offers things like Karma and such... with direct controll from a dedicated keyboard ... not just sounds (thats what akai VIP does) but giving a full workstation experience with dedicated controll... and above all workstation content.. now that would be innovation

(And espescially with akai, also invest money in a highest quallity keybed)


If traditional keyboard developers dont have a clue where to go ... maybe the software boys have....



As far as hardware.... who is going to create that fully virtuall modular hardware synth?
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its a mistake on relying on these ' events' or MI cos ( with new products) to stimulate your musical ambitions.

If you are dissatisfied that the MI cos are not leveraging technology, or pursuing the correct direction, thats a personal preference. we have zero control over these cos. They( not the smaller boutique cos) are not run by musicians.

As far as chasing technology, thats an endless cycle of innovation and failure. I don't need new gear to connect 100% to the art of musical creation.

I like new features just like anyone but they don't make or break what I am doing.
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GregC wrote:
I think its a mistake on relying on these ' events' or MI cos ( with new products) to stimulate your musical ambitions.

If you are dissatisfied that the MI cos are not leveraging technology, or pursuing the correct direction, thats a personal preference. we have zero control over these cos. They( not the smaller boutique cos) are not run by musicians.

As far as chasing technology, thats an endless cycle of innovation and failure. I don't need new gear to connect 100% to the art of musical creation.

I like new features just like anyone but they don't make or break what I am doing.


I do agree...

But thats not what we are disussing here...


I am quite happy with my setup, but why does it require 2 keyboards and a laptop to give me all the tools i want...
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GregC
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
GregC wrote:
I think its a mistake on relying on these ' events' or MI cos ( with new products) to stimulate your musical ambitions.

If you are dissatisfied that the MI cos are not leveraging technology, or pursuing the correct direction, thats a personal preference. we have zero control over these cos. They( not the smaller boutique cos) are not run by musicians.

As far as chasing technology, thats an endless cycle of innovation and failure. I don't need new gear to connect 100% to the art of musical creation.

I like new features just like anyone but they don't make or break what I am doing.


I do agree...

But thats not what we are disussing here...


I am quite happy with my setup, but why does it require 2 keyboards and a laptop to give me all the tools i want...


I see. you have concerns over the ' marketplace' surviving, etc.

it will take of itself. One time, thats what it does.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This years musikmesse has been a complete snooze fest for me. It seems progress has grind to a complete halt when it comes to keyboards.

That's me done. I'm going to buy Komplete 11 Ultimate and a S61 controller. I may even buy the new AKAI MPC Live or X. The on-board sequencer looks amazing and seriously advanced.
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Sam CA
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bachus wrote:
...
I am quite happy with my setup, but why does it require 2 keyboards and a laptop to give me all the tools i want...


Because people tend to be choosy and like to cherry pick what works for them at their price range. Almost ALL IN ONE keyboard/computer set ups went bankrupt anyway. That's just how it is...
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Bertotti
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Bachus"]
Jan1 wrote:


If traditional keyboard developers dont have a clue where to go ... maybe the software boys have....



As far as hardware.... who is going to create that fully virtuall modular hardware synth?


Kind of like reaktor 6?
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Bertotti"]
Bachus wrote:
Jan1 wrote:


If traditional keyboard developers dont have a clue where to go ... maybe the software boys have....



As far as hardware.... who is going to create that fully virtuall modular hardware synth?


Kind of like reaktor 6?


Yep..
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, the GAS this year has been purchasing 3 UH-E soft synths: Zehra (and Dark Zebra), Diva (gorgeous and as demanding on CPU as U-HE warn) and Hive.

The age of the Physical synth may be over now.........

In the Yamaha EX5, Korg Kronos (inc Sharp's excellent sound sets) and Nord G2 Engine, I am not sure what is out there hardware wise to beat those (backed up by my AN1x, FS1r, TG77 and SY99 as well......)
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derek Cook wrote:
For me, the GAS this year has been purchasing 3 UH-E soft synths: Zehra (and Dark Zebra), Diva (gorgeous and as demanding on CPU as U-HE warn) and Hive.

The age of the Physical synth may be over now.........

In the Yamaha EX5, Korg Kronos (inc Sharp's excellent sound sets) and Nord G2 Engine, I am not sure what is out there hardware wise to beat those (backed up by my AN1x, FS1r, TG77 and SY99 as well......)


Atleast you can hear why Diva is so demanding on CPU, its sound is huge...


Still wondering why there isnt yet a workstation build around VST's... all tools in a box needed for live gigging...
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Derek Cook
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diva is amazing. It runs reasonably well on my music computer that Cubase in on, but it's very touch and go on my live laptop (Cantabile as VST host). Even when you play with different Diva renderings some patches push the computer too much. But it sounds great.

Have a listen to this sound set demo for it.

https://soundcloud.com/soundsdivine/main-titles
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Joe Gerardi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me turn this around, then:

Where should the keyboard maker's go? What is new out there? What has not been done? If you remove sampling, FM, Analog, PM, Granular, wavetable, and additive style of synthesis, what is left?

Until someone invents a whole new technology, there is going to be only regurgitation.

If you think about it, the Kronos offered zilch in new features It was just a rehash of the same old stuff.

However it was done brilliantly. And that's what we see out there- rehashes, that every so often offer something brilliant.

I, for one, am excited about the Quantum. I love how samples can become part of a wavetable. And Granular synthesis. And all the other goodies. I think it will be a perfect complement to the Kronos, offering thing the Kronos hasn't got.

But mostly, what's really needed is musicians making keyboard music. Too much out there can be done on a 1980's Casio home keyboard- there's no real playing going on except in quite a niche area of music.

Hard to innovate for such a small crowd.

..Joe
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Koekepan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are different constituencies involved here.

Lots of people don't really want something new from a keyboard; they want something good from a keyboard. They know that they will be playing a grand/rhodes/hammond/farfisa sound for the foreseeable future, and want a tool that will let them do that as well as humanly possible.

Other people don't care about immediate playability in the sense of performance virtuosity, but do care about note entry for purposes of composition, or recorded performances. Essentially they want an updated player piano and barely care about interface quality beyond the simplest level. In fact, they might not care much about the keyboard's form factor. Minikeys? Slimkeys? Hexkeys? Bring 'em on!

Yet others don't give a damn for playability or arranging, but are in it for the crazy sound design. This crowd would usually be just as happy with a wall of eurorack, as they would with a Kronos, if not happier.

Now you could have something with all the input dimensions of an eigenharp, with all the sequencing of a Krome, with all the live performance of a Pa4x, with all the sonic power of a pacarana - and at that point the question (aside from the insane cost) becomes one of gaps. What can you not do with such a tool? Sample all the sounds you can't make, and make the sounds you can't sample? Run massive effects chains with side-chains galore? Play like a mad virtuoso? Compose arbitrary electronic symphonies?

Even speech synthesis is coming up with leaps and bounds, but maybe that is still your final frontier?

Deep xenharmonic capabilities, perhaps, for the Partch fans?
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