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Midi Sustain (Damper) Output Not Transmitting On Arranger

 
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Splishen-Splosher



Joined: 24 Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Location: Devon UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Midi Sustain (Damper) Output Not Transmitting On Arranger Reply with quote

Greetings Folks,

I own three Korg arrangers PA500, PA3X LE and MicroArranger.

Whilst I appreciate this is not a Forum for the MicroArranger; and because this is probably a generic Korg Arranger MIDI function, forum members here might have some idea's to share.

My problem is not present on the 500 or the 3XLE. I use the same damper pedal on each of the boards.

Midi control #64 is successfully transmitted to my DAW on the above two boards, on the MicroArranger using the same pedal, it doesn't.

Furthermore, even though I have made no midi changes accept for polarity check, the micro board is in factory default state.

The full PDF manual for the micro carries no information other than confirming in midi specs, midi control #64 is transmitted and received.

If you arranger experts could offer insight to this irritating glitch, I'd be most grateful.
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Korg PAX3 LE (PA900) Korg PA500; Korg microARRANGER; Korg M50 Workstation.

Networked Music PC's running Cubase, Studio One, and Live, with VST Sample Libraries.

MOTU interfaces; Hardware Outboard: EQs, Dynamics, Lexicon PCM Reverberators.
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 744

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Midi Sustain (Damper) Output Not Transmitting On Arrange Reply with quote

Splishen-Splosher wrote:
.. midi control #64 transmitted and received.. .


Controllers only are sent and received when MIDI Filters In and Out are set to Off in Global mode.
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- siebenhirter, austria -
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Splishen-Splosher



Joined: 24 Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Location: Devon UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Midi Sustain (Damper) Output Not Transmitting On Arrange Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
Splishen-Splosher wrote:
.. midi control #64 transmitted and received.. .


Controllers only are sent and received when MIDI Filters In and Out are set to Off in Global mode.


Thank you very for your response
Midi Filters Were Off, but transmission out of the sustain control is not being sent.

My DAW however does see the midi data for the instrument when used to input notes played on the arranger when tracking. But not the sustain data.

My other Korg arrangers do not produce this problem.

I wonder if other members here have experience this.

With Thanks.
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Korg PAX3 LE (PA900) Korg PA500; Korg microARRANGER; Korg M50 Workstation.

Networked Music PC's running Cubase, Studio One, and Live, with VST Sample Libraries.

MOTU interfaces; Hardware Outboard: EQs, Dynamics, Lexicon PCM Reverberators.
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pedro5
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Joined: 06 Oct 2011
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Location: Coventry UK.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if you're using the Micro Arranger as a controller or as a sound module(played from another keyboard).
Meaning,send or receive etc.

I may be way off with my understanding here,but as a pure guess....

If you're using another controller,assuming that is where the damper pedal is connected,I would suggest using the midi Through port.
This will provide a midi Daisy Chain from the controller etc.

Usually,with two keyboards linked via midi,the conventional midi in/out would work,but for any additional keyboards,probably needs the Through port method.
Again,I'm only guessing.... Wink

Best Wishes.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Midi Sustain (Damper) Output Not Transmitting On Arrange Reply with quote

Splishen-Splosher wrote:
... Midi control #64 ..


To use damper function for realtime-tracks it is necessary to activate damper on/off in Page "RT Ctl&DmpExpr", as "Off" means damper is not active in any realtime track.
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Splishen-Splosher



Joined: 24 Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Location: Devon UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Midi Sustain (Damper) Output Not Transmitting On Arrange Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
Splishen-Splosher wrote:
... Midi control #64 ..


To use damper function for realtime-tracks it is necessary to activate damper on/off in Page "RT Ctl&DmpExpr", as "Off" means damper is not active in any realtime track.


Thank you, but I am not sure that I understand you.

To recap, the issue is that midi control #64 is not transmitted-out of the micro arranger.

However, damper functions as it should internally within the arranger.
To be precise, if I am playing one of the internal voices of the arranger - sustain works as it should.

It does not however, send out of the arranger control #64 so it can be captured as sustain data in my daw. Note on and off etc, IS received by the daw, not sustain.
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Korg PAX3 LE (PA900) Korg PA500; Korg microARRANGER; Korg M50 Workstation.

Networked Music PC's running Cubase, Studio One, and Live, with VST Sample Libraries.

MOTU interfaces; Hardware Outboard: EQs, Dynamics, Lexicon PCM Reverberators.
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Splishen-Splosher



Joined: 24 Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Location: Devon UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pedro5 wrote:
Not sure if you're using the Micro Arranger as a controller or as a sound module(played from another keyboard).
Meaning,send or receive etc.

I may be way off with my understanding here,but as a pure guess....

If you're using another controller,assuming that is where the damper pedal is connected,I would suggest using the midi Through port.
This will provide a midi Daisy Chain from the controller etc.

Usually,with two keyboards linked via midi,the conventional midi in/out would work,but for any additional keyboards,probably needs the Through port method.
Again,I'm only guessing.... Wink

Best Wishes.


Thanks Pedro5, you are spot-on; I am using the micro arranger as a conveniently small controller with extras; extras which I'd use if and when I get the board to behave Smile

The micro arranger is not connected to any other device, except my MOTU audio interface.

Initially, I thought there might be a control issue with my daw - but after testing with a different midi keyboard, I am certain that micro arranger isn't transmitting the required data. I have waded through the 'Global' menu and filters are not active.
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Korg PAX3 LE (PA900) Korg PA500; Korg microARRANGER; Korg M50 Workstation.

Networked Music PC's running Cubase, Studio One, and Live, with VST Sample Libraries.

MOTU interfaces; Hardware Outboard: EQs, Dynamics, Lexicon PCM Reverberators.
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pedro5
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Location: Coventry UK.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the midi specification for the Micro Arranger,the damper pedal cc 64 should be transmitted,as you've already confirmed.

It may be the filter settings need checking (again)….page 129....I know you've done this,but it can be so easy to overlook these things while troubleshooting.
The other keyboards will have their own corresponding settings.

Another consideration could be the channel number for each keyboard….the default is channel 1 for transmit and receive.

I'm assuming the MA is the controller,with the damper pedal connected to it and midi out to midi in on the second keyboard....then via Through onto other keyboards etc.

However,because the computer checks also show the data to be missing,it remains a mystery.....unless there is a fault with the keyboard or connections,cables etc.

Some further information regarding your actual set up may help us understand things in a better way...perhaps.

Best Wishes.
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Midi Sustain (Damper) Output Not Transmitting On Arrange Reply with quote

Splishen-Splosher wrote:
.. I am not sure that I understand you..


.. I think so. For sending out CC#64 by pedal out of your arranger is important to enable damper pedal for each oft the Realtime (Keyboard) tracks.
It is described in manual PAGE 16 - R.T. CONTROLS: DAMPER how to let you enable/disable the Damper pedal for each of the Realtime (Keyboard) tracks.
In case none of your tracks is set to "On" you get not out cc#64-pedal-messages - also if midi specs shows midi control #64 are transmitted and received, because case cc#64-messages have to be enabled with RT-Controls "On".

PS: and it is the same with each Pa-Keyboard - have a look to Pa500-Manual Keyboard/Ensemblem - it is necessary to enable the damper pedal for each of the keyboard tracks to get out CC#64-messages
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Splishen-Splosher



Joined: 24 Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Location: Devon UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Midi Sustain (Damper) Output Not Transmitting On Arrange Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
Splishen-Splosher wrote:
.. I am not sure that I understand you..


.. I think so. For sending out CC#64 by pedal out of your arranger is important to enable damper pedal for each oft the Realtime (Keyboard) tracks.
It is described in manual PAGE 16 - R.T. CONTROLS: DAMPER how to let you enable/disable the Damper pedal for each of the Realtime (Keyboard) tracks.
In case none of your tracks is set to "On" you get not out cc#64-pedal-messages - also if midi specs shows midi control #64 are transmitted and received, because case cc#64-messages have to be enabled with RT-Controls "On".

PS: and it is the same with each Pa-Keyboard - have a look to Pa500-Manual Keyboard/Ensemblem - it is necessary to enable the damper pedal for each of the keyboard tracks to get out CC#64-messages


Thank you for your help.

I am not using any of the on-board functions of the MA. I am only using the keyboard for the purpose of tracking Virtual Instruments in my DAW.

In that situation, none of the real-time functions are of any significance in this context. I use the PA3x LE for that if I need to.
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Korg PAX3 LE (PA900) Korg PA500; Korg microARRANGER; Korg M50 Workstation.

Networked Music PC's running Cubase, Studio One, and Live, with VST Sample Libraries.

MOTU interfaces; Hardware Outboard: EQs, Dynamics, Lexicon PCM Reverberators.
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Splishen-Splosher



Joined: 24 Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Location: Devon UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pedro5 wrote:
According to the midi specification for the Micro Arranger,the damper pedal cc 64 should be transmitted,as you've already confirmed.

It may be the filter settings need checking (again)….page 129....I know you've done this,but it can be so easy to overlook these things while troubleshooting.
The other keyboards will have their own corresponding settings.

Another consideration could be the channel number for each keyboard….the default is channel 1 for transmit and receive.

I'm assuming the MA is the controller,with the damper pedal connected to it and midi out to midi in on the second keyboard....then via Through onto other keyboards etc.

However,because the computer checks also show the data to be missing,it remains a mystery.....unless there is a fault with the keyboard or connections,cables etc.

Some further information regarding your actual set up may help us understand things in a better way...perhaps.

Best Wishes.


Hello again Pedro,

The micro arranger is connected directly to the Midi interface section of my MOTU audio interface.
The MOTU is interfaced to the the Main (Host) PC via Thunderbolt.

The micro arranger in this setup is just used as a simple controller for playing/tracking midi for virtual instruments on the networked PC's.

I think it is entirely possible that I won't get the sustain pedal to function in this controller-context.

It is odd that the sustain pedal works as it should for micro arranger internal instruments but not via midi. There are no filters active.

And so, I have decided to use another keyboard for controlling the midi data.

But I'd like to thank you, and siebenhirter, for your generous assistance with my issue.
I very much appreciate your help.
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Korg PAX3 LE (PA900) Korg PA500; Korg microARRANGER; Korg M50 Workstation.

Networked Music PC's running Cubase, Studio One, and Live, with VST Sample Libraries.

MOTU interfaces; Hardware Outboard: EQs, Dynamics, Lexicon PCM Reverberators.
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pedro5
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Joined: 06 Oct 2011
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Location: Coventry UK.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update and your appreciation.

The real solution would be to use a damper pedal directly connected to the MA….of course.
(It's not clear if you tried it in this way,though).
However,my understanding is that you wanted to use a pedal connected elsewhere and use it in conjunction with the MA.

It may be possible to do this via hardware,over midi etc,but that could be a long-winded method and not really practical.

The software route could work in a better way by setting up a controller track in the sequencer for sustain input/output,which will need careful configuration regarding routing,including VI etc…but it is possible.
Probably no longer a consideration now…perhaps a future project…?

Best Wishes.
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Splishen-Splosher



Joined: 24 Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Location: Devon UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pedro5 wrote:
Thanks for the update and your appreciation.

The real solution would be to use a damper pedal directly connected to the MA….of course.
(It's not clear if you tried it in this way,though).
However,my understanding is that you wanted to use a pedal connected elsewhere and use it in conjunction with the MA.

It may be possible to do this via hardware,over midi etc,but that could be a long-winded method and not really practical.

The software route could work in a better way by setting up a controller track in the sequencer for sustain input/output,which will need careful configuration regarding routing,including VI etc…but it is possible.
Probably no longer a consideration now…perhaps a future project…?

Best Wishes.


Yes, that is how I have the pedal connected: To the damper socket actually on the MA, not elsewhere. It is straightforward - or it least it should be!

My other Arrangers do not cause this problem; perhaps because the architecture is different on those than the MA. I gather the MA is similar to the PA50 in that respect.

Each of my arrangers has its own M-Audio sustain pedal, including the MA.

I am not one to easily give up when faced with an unseen problem - but I confess my patience is wearing a bit thin Smile

My very best wishes.
_________________
Korg PAX3 LE (PA900) Korg PA500; Korg microARRANGER; Korg M50 Workstation.

Networked Music PC's running Cubase, Studio One, and Live, with VST Sample Libraries.

MOTU interfaces; Hardware Outboard: EQs, Dynamics, Lexicon PCM Reverberators.
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