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Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 3990 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:14 pm Post subject: DSI Sequential Prophet X 8Dio Product Demo
Gerry Bassermann (Dave Smith Instruments Product Specialist) gives an in-depth insight into DSI's ground breaking Prophet X. Out of ALL DSI Synths, this is the first time that I find a synth fully useful for my own playing style. The 61 keys goes for around $4k and that's all they have at the moment. Gerry couldn't comment on possible sound module or 76 key version...
It comes with 150 GB of internal 8Dio samples. Of course they can all be manipulated through the Prophet X's sound sculpting features. There's another 50 gig available for user samples. 8Dio will also sell various sample packs for the PX.
I forgot to ask if these 8Dio samples were specifically created for this particular keyboard, or they used a collection of their existing libraries. That'd be interesting to know especially if one already owns a lot of 8Dio sample libraries.
This video doesn't do justice to the sonic quality of the instrument. It's an amazing tool for writing commercials, sound tracks, orchestral cues, cinematic stuff...etc.
The samples where taken from their huge excisting collection... altough they where handpicked on suitabillity
Sadly there are no multi articulation soundsets, for which 8dio’s kontakt sounds are well known... would have been great if these where available, and that a parameter could be used to switch between articulations(instead of keyswitching as we know from kontakt) it could be very playable...
The oscilator section seems to be an upgrade from the prophet 12... sadly they decided not to add the wavetables, which where my favorite source in the prophet 12... a sample is not a wavetable, both ave different strengths.. _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 3990 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:23 pm Post subject:
Yeah, I did ask him about the keyswitch and it's not how it works. I guess the sample and drive size has to do with it. It probably didn't make sense for them to add all those details, because in that case why not just buy the Kontakt library and have it all. I own one of 8Dio String libraries. It's not playable without using keyswitches. I have all my templates in place and pretty efficient when it comes to working with orchestral libraries but sometimes I just don't want to deal with too much details. This is a perfect tool for bypassing all that while composing or arranging.
Then you also have all these Prophet utilities and filters to do whatever it is you want to do without having to leave the workstation. It's a unique instrument for sure. These two areas are where this instrument shines. It's a hybrid instrument...not a complete 8Dio nor a full blown DSI synth, which is why I'm interested. _________________ Sam
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject:
BobTheDog wrote:
Anyone tried one of these yet?
It seems pretty interesting, if a tad expensive.
I'm in some ways confused and disappointed.
The entire 8Dio part I get, and to be honest, it's long overdue. For 20 years Computers were loading Giga sized libraries, and at this stage surly all workstations should be doing the exact same thing.
Then we have the merger with Analog. This is where I get totally confused. The entire Dave Smith part of this is an odd fit. I just don't get it. Real Analog filters just jacking up the price, limiting poly to a shameful 8 stereo notes, and for what? Why on earth would I even want to mangle 8Dio samples with anything Dave Smith builds. It's a complete contradiction of concepts. Have to mention it again too, 8 notes of stereo poly.... Really ???? For 8Dio sounds???? You may as well try to strangle me very hard by the neck while I'm playing the keybaord as that is what it would feel like trying to play awsome 8Dio sounds with only 8 notes of poly.
The prize here is 8Dio sounds in a portable workstation. The ball and chain to this keyboard is the entire Dave Smith part. It would have made infinite more sense for 8Dio to have worked with KORG on their next workstation.
Dave Smith synths stand fine on their own as analog synths. This hybrid concept make zero sense and only pisses me off to be honest as I would kill for the 8Dio sounds in a portable keyboard, but I totally hate the idea of Dave Smith platform being used as they are polar opposites.
The entire 8Dio part I get, and to be honest, it's long overdue. For 20 years Computers were loading Giga sized libraries, and at this stage surly all workstations should be doing the exact same thing.
Then we have the merger with Analog. This is where I get totally confused. The entire Dave Smith part of this is an odd fit. I just don't get it. Real Analog filters just jacking up the price, limiting poly to a shameful 8 stereo notes, and for what? Why on earth would I even want to mangle 8Dio samples with anything Dave Smith builds. It's a complete contradiction of concepts. Have to mention it again too, 8 notes of stereo poly.... Really ???? For 8Dio sounds???? You may as well try to strangle me very hard by the neck while I'm playing the keybaord as that is what it would feel like trying to play awsome 8Dio sounds with only 8 notes of poly.
The prize here is 8Dio sounds in a portable workstation. The ball and chain to this keyboard is the entire Dave Smith part. It would have made infinite more sense for 8Dio to have worked with KORG on their next workstation.
Dave Smith synths stand fine on their own as analog synths. This hybrid concept make zero sense and only pisses me off to be honest as I would kill for the 8Dio sounds in a portable keyboard, but I totally hate the idea of Dave Smith platform being used as they are polar opposites.
Regards
Sharp.
There are those, lead by Dave Smith himself, that claim that digitalized/computed filters don’t come close to the real analogue deal..
Personally i can’t hear the difference between a prophet 6 and a U-he or spectrasonics build in filter...
If you want to archieve what this synth wants, i think ominsphere 2.5 with the hardware profiles will work miracles this autumn...
I do have to admit the X sounds great, but at this price for lowly 8 voice polyphony? _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 3990 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject:
I wonder how much of that $4000 goes towards sample licensing fees. Regardless, they are asking the top $ for this keyboard. I guess time will tell if this was a good idea. _________________ Sam
I wonder how much of that $4000 goes towards sample licensing fees. Regardless, they are asking the top $ for this keyboard. I guess time will tell if this was a good idea.
Normal top of the line dsi synth cost €2500... this one has an SSD... so might be €3000 for the hardware... leaving th esoftware company about €1000 for their samples. Which looks like a good deal for both of them... _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject:
Bachus wrote:
There are those, lead by Dave Smith himself, that claim that digitalized/computed filters don’t come close to the real analogue deal..
Personally i can’t hear the difference between a prophet 6 and a U-he or spectrasonics build in filter...
I would argue that people do not even strip back the sound far enough to compaire because it's the overall package that people make decisions on when it comes to buying a musical instrument.
Quote:
If you want to archieve what this synth wants, i think ominsphere 2.5 with the hardware profiles will work miracles this autumn...
Yeah that sounds like it's going to be great. I already have Komplete 11 Ultimate and a Native Instrument S61 keyboard so I can pretty much imagine what it's going to feel like. That's as close as you can get right now to feeling like your working off a dedicated workstation.
If Native Instruments ever brought out a PC or Mac based music Keyboard with a PC built in to run Kontakt, oh man.... I'd buy that in a heart beat. I've even considered having my own ATX Keyboard case produced. I see it as an investment that would last me a very long time. A keyboad that could easily be updated forever as the ATX standard never changes.
Quote:
I do have to admit the X sounds great, but at this price for lowly 8 voice polyphony?
That would be the magic 8Dio sounds. Their libraries are super realistic and they will sound even better in Kontakt than on the Prophet X because of the advanced scripting which the Prophet X doesn't support. Not to mention the fact that the Kontakt sound engine is pretty vast at this stage.
I'm sure the Prophet X will sell, but for me this hybrid makes no sense. The pitiful 8 notes of poly alone is enough to put me right off.
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 3990 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject:
I think if you spend 5 minutes with this instrument, you'll change your mind. I've NEVER felt like this towards any DSI instruments before. This one is magical! It just feels so good when you have these samples under your finger tips and yet you're not playing a midi controller! It's hard to describe. You should just play one to see what I mean. _________________ Sam
Joined: 25 May 2011 Posts: 1118 Location: Manchester UK
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:54 am Post subject:
Sharp wrote:
If Native Instruments ever brought out a PC or Mac based music Keyboard with a PC built in to run Kontakt, oh man.... I'd buy that in a heart beat. I've even considered having my own ATX Keyboard case produced. I see it as an investment that would last me a very long time. A keyboad that could easily be updated forever as the ATX standard never changes.
Already done (sort of)
It's as ugly as sin, but it works for me. I've used Bloxpander to host the VSTs, and an HP 23" touch screen as the interface. Both Kontakt and Reaktor work very well and I'm not tying up valuable resources on the Mac.
Joined: 15 Aug 2017 Posts: 635 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject:
Broadwave wrote:
Sharp wrote:
If Native Instruments ever brought out a PC or Mac based music Keyboard with a PC built in to run Kontakt, oh man.... I'd buy that in a heart beat. I've even considered having my own ATX Keyboard case produced. I see it as an investment that would last me a very long time. A keyboad that could easily be updated forever as the ATX standard never changes.
Already done (sort of)
It's as ugly as sin, but it works for me. I've used Bloxpander to host the VSTs, and an HP 23" touch screen as the interface. Both Kontakt and Reaktor work very well and I'm not tying up valuable resources on the Mac.
Very nice work, that's how it should be done. It's a shame the commercial attempts at modular computer oriented musical platforms all failed. Future proofing is always the weak link, but as Sharp highlights, the atx standard has been around forever and doesn't look like disappearing. As long as it's the mainboard that all future ram, cpu, expansion slot, networking, etc is developed for, you are set! Now if only I could put that much effort in _________________ Stuff I'm using: Umm right now, well there's a Volca Drum, a Micro Freak, an ADX-1, a Pulse, a Blofeld, a UNO Drum, KeyStep/Beatstep Pro/Keystep Pro (one of each), a Circuit, a LiveTrak L-12 and this nonsense: The Brief-case as it was about a bit over a year ago(the the complete ridiculous GAS monster collection here)and here
Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 2524 Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject:
Don't "get" this instrument at all.
Why does it need a multi Gigabyte sample library when it's limited to 8 voices, and has no controls for sample based performance (articulation switching, dynamic cross fading, ...)?
If the point is to offer more raw material for sound design, then the JD800, with just a few megabytes of incredibly smartly chosen 'sound types' over 100 categories offers endless raw material for sound design (I've owned several of them for over two decades and have barely scratched the surface of what this instrument is capable of), while surely Omnisphere with a good controller (and 2.5 linkage to many hard synths in real time) offers hugely more options at a fraction of the price?
Vast Gigabytes of samples is not what sound design is about, and I think they've gotten this design wrong.
Don't like knocking this too much because it's a good attempt - but - to me it's just 'wrong' in a lot of ways and at the price, I don't expect it to be a success. If it had the Nord Electro 88 or Kronos 88 type footprint / interface and 100 - 200 voices I'd understand it; but not as a plain 5 octave polysynth with nothing more than a standard subtractive synth control surface with seemingly no sample library dedicated performance controls!
Waldorf's Quantum seems like a much smarter modern polysynth innovation for about the same money (though it too is limited o 8 voices).
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:45 am Post subject:
Broadwave wrote:
Already done (sort of)
It's as ugly as sin, but it works for me. I've used Bloxpander to host the VSTs, and an HP 23" touch screen as the interface. Both Kontakt and Reaktor work very well and I'm not tying up valuable resources on the Mac.
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 18197 Location: Ireland
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:59 am Post subject:
Sam CA wrote:
I think if you spend 5 minutes with this instrument, you'll change your mind. I've NEVER felt like this towards any DSI instruments before. This one is magical! It just feels so good when you have these samples under your finger tips and yet you're not playing a midi controller! It's hard to describe. You should just play one to see what I mean.
Don't think I would to be hoenst. 8Dio sounds will always sound better when played back with Kontakt because all their scripting is missing from the Prophet X. I also really couldn't live with only 8 notes of Poly on any sample based synth.
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