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It seems that Yamaha Genos use maybe a Texas Instruments DM3725 because vocal processing sounds equal as Pa3XLe. Same DSP coding same libraries same issues nothing changes on brands. Here I recorded a new video about DM3725 internal DSP overload on Pa3XLe. The audio stream started to cut at 0:48 (-0:13) a part is lost during the recording.
The introduction of cheap single core ARM+DSP all in one solution for tablets ans smartphones like the DM3725 is not a progress at all. In Yamaha Genos (DSP jittering issues starting at 1:12) and Korg Pa series are the culprit about the exposed issues.
Yamaha is using yamaha propriety chips amd processors..
They build and manufactor them theirselves..
Which makes your conclusions and assumtions utter nonsense...
It seems that Yamaha Genos use "maybe" a Texas Instruments DM3725
But the issues are the same comparing Genos and Pa3XLe vocal processing such video link came from a user in this post. Maybe repeat again maybe some conclusions in hardware specs are wrong everyone can debate but the material in this post shows that I am not the only facing issues. By the other way Korg don´t provide software upgrades to correct the exposed issues for the Pa3XLe since jun 2015 last version is 1.10. I uploaded videos so everyone can take conclusions.
In the case of Yamaha Motif XS I repaired one on which the center panel board started to fail because the microcontroller Eeprom data was corrupted. The only option in this case was to install a entire new spare part but researching the microcontroller code it was a Nec part with Yamaha custom firmware. Yamaha provides here only the firmware software not the architecture but some DSP are Yamaha proprietary ASIC. So in this case despite that the chip says Yamaha its not 100% manufactured by them forcing the customer to replace the entire board because the firmware data is unavailable.
Is not a question to call customer support for a solution because a professional arranger in the price range of 2500 dollars supposedly with a TC-Helicon voice processor should work without voice recording issues, fortunately there was a 1000 rebate thanks to a summer discount the Pa3XLe at 1500 is a great deal. To conclude I´m happy despite the issues. _________________ Please check my Facebook page and blog at
A very interesting read by the most knowledgeble keyboard internals expert i know, far outreaching my technical knowledge... the strong point of PJ’s articles is the research he does to back them up.
He also has sarticles about te internals of Yamaha and Roland... _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net
Joined: 29 May 2013 Posts: 269 Location: Argentina
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject:
I think that no one advertise that the purpose why Korg introduce MP3 recording tag on PA series is only to keep a way to preserve musicians ideas while compossing a song.- It's not a proffesional recorder, and of course it's not a full featured Tc Helicon procesor.-
Pretending that full features like MP3 or Wav recording and TC Helicon voice procesors were included on a keyboard its a chimera.-
PA series is an excellent tool to help musicians capture ideas on the fly, and PA4x is the best hardware to do that.- For the best results on live situations you must have dedicated hardware for voice processing, go for a TC Voicelive 3 and a decent MP3/WAV (i prefer the last format) recorder, otherwier you will be allways frustrated.-
Just a point of view.- _________________ Korg Kronos 2 88 - Korg PA4x 76 - Roland Fantom 08 - Korg N1R Sound Module - Korg 05RW Sound Module - Roland UM550 Edirol Midi Patchbay Amp pair SWR California Blonde II
I think that no one advertise that the purpose why Korg introduce MP3 recording tag on PA series is only to keep a way to preserve musicians ideas while compossing a song.- It's not a proffesional recorder, and of course it's not a full featured Tc Helicon procesor.-
Pretending that full features like MP3 or Wav recording and TC Helicon voice procesors were included on a keyboard its a chimera.-
PA series is an excellent tool to help musicians capture ideas on the fly, and PA4x is the best hardware to do that.- For the best results on live situations you must have dedicated hardware for voice processing, go for a TC Voicelive 3 and a decent MP3/WAV (i prefer the last format) recorder, otherwier you will be allways frustrated.-
Just a point of view.-
I never understood the mp3 recorder... since the compression isn’t lossles you allways loose quallity...
What you want is multi track audio recording... _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net
The case here is clear , no matter of mp3 rubbish format in anywhere , and ignorant speculations of DSP stuff , Pa3X & Pa3X (slower CPU)
arrangers do not have the slightest of the described problems , topic creator should had posted at Pa3XLe section , asking users there
that are interested to do the tests and confirm the claimed mp3 recording distortions in that model , else he has to visit experts in authorized
korg service and repair his real hardware issue without messing up Pa4X section with inaccurate speculations of processor malfunction ...
for God's sake that's enough ... feeling very boring to read for 2 weeks the same "bubble" It ruins my vacation _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V
Seeing the answers on this topic I´m very happy to pay a low price for the Pa3XLe despite the technical issues. The lack of support and software updates on Korg models confirm that there is no interest to assist and correct technical issues, forget to call customer support for a solution. Anyone know that the possibility for a repair is very low and if someone had the spare part will cost a lot of money despite the use of the same 10 dollars tablet CPU/DSP on all models. Nothing more to say. _________________ Please check my Facebook page and blog at
Just so you can reevaluate your opinions, check the link from TI webpage where they write the intended use of this specific cpu/dsp IC
http://www.ti.com/product/DM3725
As you can see they write :
Audio
Automotive
Communications and Telecom
Computers and Peripherals
Consumer Electronics
Energy
Industrial Medical Security
I doubt anybody would use a prone to failure and not well designed IC / DIE in any automotive, industrial, security or even worse medical design..
The lack of support and software updates on Korg models confirm that there is no interest to assist and correct technical issues, forget to call customer support for a solution. Anyone know that the possibility for a repair is very low
Sorry but you should avoid generalising - it's fine to express your own feelings and experiences of course but your comment above is not, in general, true - from my experience, Korg support has been as good as, if not better in some cases, than others. The "possibility" for repair is available and parts are not necessarily hard to get (obviously depending on the repair requirement)
If you believe your statement above then that is fine but from my personal experience in over 20 years of owning Korgs, I do not agree.
Just saying....
Cheers
Pete _________________ PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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...and play lots of music
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The lack of support and software updates on Korg models confirm that there is no interest to assist and correct technical issues, forget to call customer support for a solution. Anyone know that the possibility for a repair is very low
Sorry but you should avoid generalising - it's fine to express your own feelings and experiences of course but your comment above is not, in general, true - from my experience, Korg support has been as good as, if not better in some cases, than others. The "possibility" for repair is available and parts are not necessarily hard to get (obviously depending on the repair requirement)
If you believe your statement above then that is fine but from my personal experience in over 20 years of owning Korgs, I do not agree.
Just saying....
Cheers
Pete
+1
I am able to repair almost any malfunction on korgs but thats not true in other brands, as roland and yamaha for example, because most of their ICs are their own designs or rebranded ICs that the original part is unknown...
On korgs the only ICs that are custom or rebranded are the TG96 and TG01 which are the main dsp's on older korgs and personally i have never found one faulty yet..
Just so you can reevaluate your opinions, check the link from TI webpage where they write the intended use of this specific cpu/dsp IC
http://www.ti.com/product/DM3725
As you can see they write :
Audio
Automotive
Communications and Telecom
Computers and Peripherals
Consumer Electronics
Energy
Industrial Medical Security
I doubt anybody would use a prone to failure and not well designed IC / DIE in any automotive, industrial, security or even worse medical design..
To me its not about using the wrong chipset...
Its about using the cheepest alternative...
There are other chipsets offering a whole lot more power, for an acceptable price ... _________________ Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net
There are other chipsets offering a whole lot more power, for an acceptable price ...
Thing is , are they c64+ compatible?
Will they be available till the end of the series?
Were they available when the development (most probably 2011-2012) started?
I think all 3 of these are a no!
They started with the best fit i guess when they started designing and writing down what it will do and calculating the power needed for these and double (or more) than that...
My guess is that pa4x/700/1000 will be the last ones using this chipset as most probably the davinci chip will get to end of life till 2025-2026 ,the time the end of life of next pa (or whatever its name will be) will come!
The Pa3XLe at 1500 is a great deal with a Davinci 10 dollars tablet CPU/DSP mainboard I prefer to pay less for a cheap hardware. But 4500 for the Pa4X using same 10 dollars chip same mainboard with the add of a true TC_Helicon DSP on secondary jacks board and 9 panel MIDI faders for realtime control from my point of view is to expensive not a good deal if the Pa4X engine starts to fails.
The Davinci DM3725 will get to end of life depending of the chip silicon quality and its endurance over time. On youtube there are many users with issues on Pa4X the Pa3XLe seems to be more stable no issues at the moment only me explaining the poor quality on voice harmonizer effects and mp3 recording.
I have a TC-Helicon Voicelive touch I pay for it only 100 a non working unit that I fixed. The Voicelive Touch is much better a true TC-Helicon DSP with the possibility to record digital to PC laptop via USB my voice and the Pa3X using the line inputs but first I will try to record on a student laptop via line outs because Pa3XLe mic input shines in raw quality and less complicated in setup.
Here a demo after Voicelive Touch repair. I don´t use here a foot switch for effects change the reason about the post editing after recording. A nice Christmas eve 2017 toy for only 100 recorded with my Fender GDO300 acoustic guitar chord recognition only I need to learn to play & sing better The nice portamento on the harmony choir and the last cathedral choir effect are amazing only the mic quality is poor for recordings a condenser would be much better.
A TC-Helicon demo with condenser mic. Here I don´t like to much the quality because audio is poor & saturated. The problem starts when more audio tracks and effects are looped because the output average resolution is lower like saturated poor audio quality. This is one of the problems on DSP signal processing when voices and polyphony increase. To avoid such issues a wider digital DSP bus is required to provide enough headroom on DSP signals mixing and effects. Many thinks that ADC sampling at 20 or 24 bit is better but is not so because the bus data is overloaded in resolution without reason. Sampling at 16 bits or lower 14 or 12 bits are enough to reach human voice dynamic range in this case the DSP bus can allocate more voices and effects on digital DSP bus for mixing avoiding the loss of output signal headroom. In the case of DAC using 24 bits is better because the wide DSP bus matches the output of DAC I´m not expert is only my point of view and can be wrong. Pa3XLe gives transparent pristine raw voice audio quality despite the harmonizer effects and recording mp3 issues.
The Pa3XLe for 1500 (summer discount of 1000) plus 100 more for the Voicelive Touch true TC-Helicon engine with USB recording to PC or laptop 1600 for all is amazing grace... nothing more to say... _________________ Please check my Facebook page and blog at
First of all it is not a 10 dollars chip , it is more like a 40 dollars chip (higher price than the atom used in kronos).
Secondly it is not intended for tablets/mobiles as you say and it is as easy to be proved as going the TI official page and read the intended applications (which include medical , industrial and security).
Last but not least, the harmonizer works as intended , you just need to set it up correctly and sing on a key note (its does not have pitch correction so to detect the correct pitch and so be able to harmonize it correctly, your singing must be on key which on your video is not).
I agree its not the best harmonizer but it doesn't have any problem like you describe.
Also the problems on the pa4x you saw are software bugs, nothing related to hardware.
Nobody says it is a perfect keyboard and yes they all have bugs..More on the new ones as they are more recent and less on the older ones as most of them have been fixed (the ones that got correctly explained so the programmers to be able to replicate and fix)...
I think it is time for the mods to lock this thread as it seems to be going nowhere and there is nothing more to be said in my opinion.
Joined: 22 Mar 2007 Posts: 975 Location: from a mile high to the the AZ desert
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:31 am Post subject:
musiccankill wrote:
First of all it is not a 10 dollars chip , it is more like a 40 dollars chip (higher price than the atom used in kronos).
Secondly it is not intended for tablets/mobiles as you say and it is as easy to be proved as going the TI official page and read the intended applications (which include medical , industrial and security).
Last but not least, the harmonizer works as intended , you just need to set it up correctly and sing on a key note (its does not have pitch correction so to detect the correct pitch and so be able to harmonize it correctly, your singing must be on key which on your video is not).
I agree its not the best harmonizer but it doesn't have any problem like you describe.
Also the problems on the pa4x you saw are software bugs, nothing related to hardware.
Nobody says it is a perfect keyboard and yes they all have bugs..More on the new ones as they are more recent and less on the older ones as most of them have been fixed (the ones that got correctly explained so the programmers to be able to replicate and fix)...
I think it is time for the mods to lock this thread as it seems to be going nowhere and there is nothing more to be said in my opinion.
The DM3725 without the PowerVR SGX 3D graphics unit is cheaper as DM3730. It can cost 22 dollars each year 2010 introduction price.
In high quantities above 1000 units the DM3725 can cost 10 to 15 dollars depending the discount because is an 10 years old single core ARM chip.
DIGIKEY, MOUSER prices at 40 dollars each DM3725 are to high is a distributor for repair shops not for production in large quantities because warehousing the chips have an extra cost. The price also starts to rise when the chip is out of production because there are less units available for repairs.
The DM3725 chip is maybe older designed in 2008 because the BeagleBoard-xM using a DM3730 is from early 2010 is like a Raspberry Pi.
_________________ Please check my Facebook page and blog at
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