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Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange Reply with quote

Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange - You can use all kbdSets of a setlist for a style

Hello,
when changing an Sb-entry via the setlist, it should be possible that the style of the next / previous setlist entry is not loaded automatically, but can be suppressed with a lock parameter if necessary.

This would be more useful than the existing lock parameters for freezing "Style Tracks Volume" and "Style Tracks Play / Mute" during setlist switching. With a style lock parameter, which prevents the loading of a new style altogether, it would be possible to use all kbdSets of a setlist with any most recent active style.

Instead of being limited to the four KbdSets or the only indirectly accessible KbdSets of the library, you could use all kbdSets of a setlist for a style.

The selection of SetList entries would be made via the buttons of the KbdSet library and the selection of the KbdSets via the four buttons below the display - thus altogether very comfortable with one single button press.

What solution is there otherwise, with the set list to call the next / previous entry, without the style of the next / previous entry is loaded, but the current style with the current style element remains unchanged when called?

If there is no solution, I suggest this parameter as a change in the next OS to consider!

PS: For a change of a KbdSet with non-intersecting transition of the style, the set list is not suitable, even if you create several Sb-entries with the same style, because Lock Style element is inactive when using the Songbook and therefore the last set Style element not always the same as the next.
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Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sb entries are all custom and each entry includes the chosen Style, Vars, Setlists etc.

In my Songbook there is Amazing Grace which has a Piano as its first instrument, the next song in my Songbook is Apache where a Strat Guitar with echo and reverb is the first instrument.

If I read your post correctly you want to be able to say lock the keyboard sets in Amazing Grace and to use them in Apache.

If I am not understanding your post correctly can you please explain further?
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Pa1000 - Lock style for Setlist Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:
Sb entries are all custom ..


Your representation of a Sb entry is basically correct, but technically it also is to represent this as follows:
the songbook is a database and the setlist is an excerpt of records from this database, where one record corresponds to one sb-entry.

An SB entry contains:
- Links to a style, an SMF or an MP3 - in Styleplay mode the link to a style residing in memory of Pa-keyboard is relevant (STYLESEQUENCE)
- individual track parameters of a style setting (BACKGROUND TRACKS)
- individual track parameters of four keyboard sets (REALTIME-TRACKS x 4)
- some more ... (Pads, VH ..)

Now using next/previous Setlist sb-entry automatically changes and LOAD STYLESEQUENCE + BACKGROUND-TRACKS + four REALTIME-TRACKS ...

If loading of Stylesequence + Background could be locked, with next/previous Setlist only the four Realtime-Tracks would be loaded. So a recent Style could be played with many different Keyboard-Sets of a Setlist, simple accessable with direct-access-single-touch of a setlist-button and one of the four buttons under the display. But you do not have to create separate sb-entries with the recent style, because you can use sb-entries with any style for such a setlist.

In case of playalong you would change the recent style - that could be done with style select, with or without changing realtime-tracks (depends on StyleToKbdSet) and could be continued with this new style and all kbd sets of the setlist.

Once you've found four kbd-sets for some styles and saved in the songbook, all of the kbd-sets also could be used additionally in a new style without to copy some sb-entries, but can instantly use those kbd-sets from several other styles for each style intuitively - through a lock-function as proposed .
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Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I now see your logic, thanks for the explanation.

How about suggesting a modification to the My Setting control?

Pressing My Setting restores our saved KbSet to the current Style.

Pressing and holding the My Setting brings up the Write dialogue to write the KbSet and other settings to the My Setting preset.

If this Write dialogue process was rewritten to give the option to Lock as well as Write could that work for you?

Resetting the Lock could then be by reversing the procedure.

The Style to Keybboard set function sort of does what you want as standard
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject: Pa1000 - Lock style for Setlist Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:
.. a modification to the My Setting control


With Sb-Entry a song is always automatically played back with the same settings assigned to it. In addition, setlists should allow creative and intuitive use to play a style without overlapping with a series of other registrations (kbd sets) and without having to create separate sb entries.

This does not work via MySetting, but it would be easy to do with a style-lock parameter for setlist. This would allow each style to be combined with all kbd sets in a setlist and playable until a style change occurs via panel or auto-select.

--> http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=115937
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried copy and pasting your preffered KbSLs to all your Songs in the Songbook Editor Software.

At least this would be the quick way to set up your Songs as you seem to want them in the absense of your desired Lock function
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BR
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Pa1000 - Lock style for Setlist Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
...it would be easy to do with a style-lock parameter for setlist.
This would allow each style to be combined with all kbd sets in a setlist and playable until a style change occurs via panel or auto-select.
Agree and good point.
They should add this feature in Pa4X too.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:
Have you tried copy and pasting your preffered KbSLs to all your Songs in the Songbook Editor Software. At least this would be the quick way to set up your Songs as you seem to want them in the absense of your desired Lock function


Unfortunately seems you have misunderstood to accomplish the requirement for using songbook also more creative and intuitive in an advanced way of playing. It is not necessary for that to copy/paste/write something or to setup songs - this is far too complicated and does not work for the desired solution.

It's not about more assignments of setlists or setups for songs because - as mentioned earlier -
an Sb-entry with all the required settings maybe advantageous for someone who always wants to play a song with the same four KbdSets of an entry. Thats is ok - should not be changed.

What should be implementet: in case one would play more creative and intuitive, advanced playing with using setlists and its sb-entries - already existing and prepared for songs - is hampered because setlist is loading also background-tracks (style-tracks) with each next/previous of setlist.

That is easy to avoid with a a minor change to the songbook - that would be with implementing one Parameter (Lock-Style), to enable also advanced applications without to change sb-entries or setlists.

Hope for a lot of support for this suggestion! Thanks.
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Last edited by siebenhirter on Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to have misread my post

I did not post about Songbook, I posted about the Songbook Editor software.

If the software worked with the 1000 and 700 the software could be used to amend all the songbook entries with the keyboard sets etc as you want them.

No, its not the Lock you suggest but it is a workaround.

The only thing is the software does not work on the 1000 and 700 and Korg seems incapable of making it work, so you probably have two chances of getting your Lock function, that is, little and none.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject: Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:
You seem to have misread my post .. I posted about the Songbook Editor software. .... you probably have two chances of getting your Lock function, that is, little and none.


Yes, I misread your post, but also songbook-editor is not suitable for the desired solution and would be also far too complicated for this.

I do not speculate about chances, whether suggestions for improvement are taken into account in an OS-update, because I am convinced that the implementation of my proposal extends the functionality of the setlist for creative and intuitive playing, without extensive changes to the OS.

So I ask for support for my suggestion! Thank you.
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B.Safe
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange Reply with quote

@siebenhirter, I'm not sure I understand your use case.

I may have missed something in your requirement but if the case is where 4 KBSets are not enough for a given song, you can use the SB entry for the 4 most usefull KBSets for that song and then use any KBSet from the KBSet Library for additional KBSets. You can then even share your KBSets between songs.


I have the feeling that with your solution you have to manage several SB entries for each single song needing more than 4 KBSets.
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B.Safe
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange Reply with quote

@siebenhirter, I'm not sure I understand your use case.

I may have missed something in your requirement but if the case is where 4 KBSets are not enough for a given song, you can use the SB entry for the 4 most usefull KBSets for that song and then use any KBSet from the KBSet Library for additional KBSets. You can then even share your KBSets between songs.


I have the feeling that with your solution you have to manage several SB entries for each single song needing more than 4 KBSets.
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take is that the Op wants the same 4 keybd sets for all the Songs in the Songbook to be available via a Lock function.

Eg
In a Songbook entry that has the 4 kbsets that want to be used for all songs then a function should be available to lock said 4 kbsets so that only these four are used for all the Songs in Songbook, until such a time as the Lock is switched off.

Then it is just a single touch to change from one kbset to another and of course any kbset is available to use it just takes more presses of buttons.

Which leads on to another function that I would like, Favourites, where each of the kbset buttons can be assigned my preffered instrument sound when I push the corresponding button, ie push Organ and Jazz Organ plays, push guitar and Clean Strat plays.
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Pa1000 - Setlist with / without StyleChange Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:
... the same 4 keybd sets for all the Songs in the Songbook to be available via a Lock function ..


NO - forget term SONG in contex if you want to play intuitively, because a song which always is played repeatedly with the same pre-programmed settings of a sb-entry is rigid, coupled and fixed assigned.

To play creative and spontan you like to PLAY THE RECENT STYLE WITHOUT LIMITATION to a few registers or KbdSets, but WITH DIRECT-ACCESS TO A VARIETY OF SETTINGS of Realtime-tracks.

A lock-style function is much easier to understand when looking at the technical process of a setlists next/previous. SetLists from the SongBook are collections of Sound sets with an associated Style or Song. With LOCK-STYLE IT SIMPLY IS WAIVED LOADING ASSOCIATED STYLES/Songs (Background-Data).
*
With a setlist using "Previous / Next", a LOCK-STYLE does not block KbdSets, but PREVENTS LOADING OF BACKGROUND-TRACKS - these are the data of the style (style sequence) and the style setting.
*
As a side effect this will change synonymous a bit faster, because the memory is not reloaded with the new style and the new style settings, but only with the data of the realtime-tracks.
*
B.Safe wrote:
.. where 4 KBSets are not enough .. use any KBSet from the KBSet Library for additional KBSets ... with your solution you have to manage several SB entries for each single song needing more than 4 KBSets ..


As mentioned to play intuitively you need no pre-programmed settings of one sb-entry, that is rigid, coupled, fixed assigned each time you play a specific song - simply select your song as usual before you Lock-Style, then Lock-Style or maybe use a style (selected with pre-programmed Autoselect-style) for series of songs to playalong WITH DIRECT-ACCESS TO A VARIETY OF SETTINGS of Realtime-tracks.

For this, no Sb-entries have to be managed separately - on the contrary, sb-entries of the sb-list are used as they are - no matter for which song they was written into sb. For this solution to use the KbdSets of the library would be a disadvantage, because the BUTTONS of the KbdSet-library are much better suited FOR the single-touch direct-access to Sb-entries of SETLIST (Setlist ON does not allow selection of KbdSet with library-button.

With the four Kbd sets per Sb-Entry the Pa1000 has a direct access to 45 KbdSets (4 x 9 KbdSets by Setlist, 1 x 9 KbdSets by AutoSelect-KbdSet), because the button SET LIST (on / off) allows the additional use of KbdSets in single-touch direct-access through the AutoSelect function.

In TileView songs are selected in pages of nine KbdSets, which you can choose from the control panel with single-touch direct-access (if SET LIST indicator is on). If using page indicator in the top right corner of the page you go to different pages inside the selected Set List to be able choosing next 36 Kbd-Sets of the same Set List - in addition you can also choose Entries and SetLists from an external, Direct SongBook, to extend your internal database on the fly etc .....

PS: in short - a style-lock parameter for setlist would allow each style to be combined with all kbd sets in a setlist and playable until a style change occurs via panel or auto-select.
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Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will now pass with posting further on this thread.
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