Korg Forums

[mintjamman]

I am trying to gauge the views of what people think about the new organ engine. Personally I am finding the its lacking in balls and there is a difference between what we had in V2 and now OS-3.

Firstly Korg have now taken away the Harmonic Percussion Volume Level so its not preset Soft and Hard. The basic tone of the organ under drawbar control is thinner above C above middle C it kind of fades away as you play up the scale.
I had some decent organ sounds which I had set up and over the last year or so honed these sounds at many gigs but now it sounds a lot different and not in a good way I am afraid to say and its starting to bug me.

I thought that after a lot of feedback about the organ side of things they would have done a better job. Some of the preset organ sounds are much better but if you want to use the drawbars IMHO something has been taken away in this new version and its not in a good way.

So how are the organ players amongst you finding this section of the update ?
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Yamaha S90ES, Korg Triton Pro, EXB Moss, Roland XV5080, Korg EX8000, Korg Pa4x 76, Korg Kronos 88, Crumar MOJO, Logic Pro X, V Collection, Novation SL61,Vienna, Korg Pa4x , EC-5, Vienna, Arturia V Collection, Roland SC88 Pro, Roland D110, Alesis SR16, Alesis D4

[karmathanever]

I was actually pleasantly surprised with the change.
Members in my band even commented on it (without even knowing about the update)

I wouldn't have used the HP volume control - I found the presets to be fine.
I think the two basic tones are nicely improved.

I would like the "Leslie" fast/slow lever to represent its current state. I have some songs where I want to re-enter a solo knowing that the Leslie is fast.

The default DRAWBAR set-up when you just select it in SOUND mode is not very nice but of course you can change all that (leakage, key-noise etc...)
I've always hoped Korg might add the classic vibrato/chorus controls rather than leave it to FX.
The 1' drawbar has always been odd and also is not true to the real thing by remaining active when HP is on.

Anyhow you asked what I thought - these are my views currently - I am definitely happier with V3 DRAWBAR organ

Cheers

Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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[mintjamman]

Thanks for your views Pete, Interesting !

TOM04 has outlined the shortcomings in the Drawbar Section elsewhere in his overview of the differences between V2 and V3 and has focused on what has been taken away in the organ section in V3 and noted the sound differences.

As I said elsewhere and as TOM045 has stated these items are not bugs but choices Korg Development have made but I stick to my position that they have made some bad choices here, I have really experimented with the V3 organ and seriously its not as good as it was in V2 and Korg had a opportunity to keep what we had and refine it but listening to its users and especially those who know and understand the finer points.

They could have kept the sound they had, added C/V all six settings, Kept the Adjustable Harmonic Percussion parameters, introduced the new Interface which in my view would have been better than what we have now imho.

I hate to put a downer on any development Korg provide us with but this downgrade of organ features could just be enough to make me want to roll back to V2. I have a busy week of gigs coming up and will see how the organ works out for me live.
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Yamaha S90ES, Korg Triton Pro, EXB Moss, Roland XV5080, Korg EX8000, Korg Pa4x 76, Korg Kronos 88, Crumar MOJO, Logic Pro X, V Collection, Novation SL61,Vienna, Korg Pa4x , EC-5, Vienna, Arturia V Collection, Roland SC88 Pro, Roland D110, Alesis SR16, Alesis D4

[kbrkr]

I agree with you. I have a Nord Stage 3 and a Kronos 2 with the CX3 emulation. The Pa4x Organ simulation is wonky. The Leslie sounds like vibrato and on Fast speed, sounds rediculous when compared to the Nord and Kronos. Also, sometimes the Fast/Slow switch on the Drawbar screen doesn't work; I'm still trying to figure that one out.

The default Noise assignment on the default Drawbars sounds horrible. I can safely say it has not changed for the better. I don't care about the simulation screen, I'd rather have correct sounding simulations to work with. I am also not a big fan on how to create User Sounds. It is very convoluted and not very "Self Evident" how to do it. I give props for effort, but low marks for execution!
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Pa5x, Yamaha Genos, ForeScore

[worth]

The beauty here is that you can revert to the previous operating system if the organ simulations are better . You can download the new styles and leave the rest and you will still have benefitted from the upgrade . There are no losers here .

[chelsea4023]

Hi,

This is a subject quite close to my heart. Over the years, I have owned all manner of arrangers including Korg (PA800, PA2X Pro, PA4X) Yamaha (Tyros 2, 4 and a 5) and Roland. I can honestly say (this is a purely personal opinion) I have never found a great drawbar sound that I enjoyed in any of them.

Because of this, I have purchased several organ clones to use in conjunction with my arrangers. First was a Nord C1 which I never really took to (it also did not have proper drawbars). I then bought a Numa 2 single keyboard which was excellent and finally I purchased a Viscount Legend Live twin manual drawbar organ. Following a couple of O/S updates and the release of an editor this (in my opinion) is the finished article. I often sit down and start 'noodling' at the Legend Live and before I realise it two or three hours have passed, something I don't often get with the PA4X.

The major 'head scratch' here is that you can get a Viscount Legend drawbar expander for around £600 U.K.
How is it that major Companies like Yamaha, Roland and Korg cannot accurately recreate this sound, along with the incredibly realistic Leslie simulation that the Viscount Legend (or even the Crumar Mojo) has for their keyboards.

Chris

p.s. A genuine 'laugh out loud' moment for me was after updating to Version 3.0, I put on one of the new drawbar organ voices and fired up the leslie sim. That's NOT a leslie sim, that's actually vibrato. It's utterly dreadful !!

[D575]

After making the effort to revise the drawbar organ korg seemed to of missed the opportunity hit the spot and I have a feeling this is probably not going to change much now pending a new release to replace the PA4X.... so in the mean time I will continue to use https://youtu.be/z-1C3bFdxac and clearly (rightly) the expectation is high around here against what we know in many other ways is a very good product (PA4X)... it's a shame we could not have this all in one box.
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

[karmathanever]

I like Organimation - bought and used their products on my M3 and Kronos....

Used to own a great "Creamware B4000" - was great but really trying to avoid more gear (not!!!!)
Should I say:- my wife it trying to avoid more gear (Nah!! she's great really - just joking)

Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------

[mintjamman]

Had my first live outing with the OS3 uodate and the organ isnt cutting it, its weak and percussion is wrong. However I am going to revoice some of our songs with the organ drawbar sounds and give it a further chance but if I cannot get what I need from this organ update then I will definitely be rolling back to V 2.
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Yamaha S90ES, Korg Triton Pro, EXB Moss, Roland XV5080, Korg EX8000, Korg Pa4x 76, Korg Kronos 88, Crumar MOJO, Logic Pro X, V Collection, Novation SL61,Vienna, Korg Pa4x , EC-5, Vienna, Arturia V Collection, Roland SC88 Pro, Roland D110, Alesis SR16, Alesis D4

[bluewolfe]

As a B3 player (I have a B3 / Leslie 122 and a Hammond XK-3c), Korg does a fair job, but, remember it is still a clonewheel. Even my Hammond XK-3c isn't a perfect match for my real B3, but, darn close as well.

[mintjamman]

Bluewolfe, as a Hammond Player myself I am not even trying to compare the Organ on the Pa4x to either a clonewheel or the real thing.

I am working along the basis that the organ sound in V2 was better than in V3.
I did have some criticisms of the V2 organ in that the leslie required an update, that we needed Chorus/Vib along with depth and speed settings, not just an effect. But what we have now imho is a lesser organ section in respect of the drawbars section, Harmonic Percussion Volume deleted, No C/V and this overdone crosstalk and leakage Korg have given us.

I have a number of drawbar settings that I use live and for the main part in V2 they worked pretty well but porting those over into V3 they now sound awful and no amount of tweaking improves that situation.

I am on the verge of reinstalling V2 due to this
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Yamaha S90ES, Korg Triton Pro, EXB Moss, Roland XV5080, Korg EX8000, Korg Pa4x 76, Korg Kronos 88, Crumar MOJO, Logic Pro X, V Collection, Novation SL61,Vienna, Korg Pa4x , EC-5, Vienna, Arturia V Collection, Roland SC88 Pro, Roland D110, Alesis SR16, Alesis D4

[D575]

Surely korg where ment to add not take away with any revision ?... I do wonder what the logic is sometimes when you see company's making these sort of decisions which we can clearly see has a negative impact (as seen in this discussion) so you do wonder if any sort of surveys are used to consult end user's when there is continued development work going on.. especially from the performing Pro community before embarking on this type of revision??... this just seems to me to be a half backed rushed revison... (who where the beta testers and programmes ? are they fully experienced in this type of aplication (drawbars)
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

[mintjamman]

Half Baked ?

I want to say that most of us probably appreciate that Korg are engaged with the Pa4x and for bringing new features, sounds and styles. We have no way of knowing what if any of what’s posted in this forum ever finds its way back to the developers or in the event it does what processes are adopted to then make changes or improvements. In a ideal world it would be very useful if Korg did look in here and look at things that as the end users we desire to be changed or improved.

Of course there’s lots that just will never get done like wishlist items, proven bugs that usually do get sorted and then opinions about what needs to be done. Certainly with the V3 update I was never expecting a detailed clone wheel, rather refinements and enhancements to what we already had. Others don’t care for the new GUI and are asking for changes and options on that.

Eitherway from the feedback I have given Korg UK I felt as if they really didn’t know what I was talking about but then again if your not knowledgeable with a drawbar organ and how it should sound and work I guess it’s a case that feedback given will never be communicated in a reliable fashion back to the Devs. I think that the new EP’s are good and very useable but given Korg’s track record with the drawbar organ, i.e the BX3/ CX3 and later efforts with Kronos CX3 Organs I think a number of users were hoping for a much better offering in the Organ Section.
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[D575]

Ref: half baked... meaning specifically the drawbar organ changes in V3 and missing funtion Which I used also (Harmonic Percussion Volume) but as a platform like many others i am a big fan of course... perhaps I'm wrong but you would think the drawbar organ would need to be or could be top notch but may be the expectation is misplaced? considering it is after all a General Arranger keyboard doing many things for a certain price ?
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :

[mintjamman]

How is it that major Companies like Yamaha, Roland and Korg cannot accurately recreate this sound, along with the incredibly realistic Leslie simulation that the Viscount Legend (or even the Crumar Mojo) has for their keyboards.

Even the Crumar Mojo ? In Point of fact the Crumar Mojo has a great Leslie sim onboard and whats more its highly configurable unlike some of the other contenders. As said Roland and Korg have not as yet produced a realistic Organ and leslie Combination.
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Yamaha S90ES, Korg Triton Pro, EXB Moss, Roland XV5080, Korg EX8000, Korg Pa4x 76, Korg Kronos 88, Crumar MOJO, Logic Pro X, V Collection, Novation SL61,Vienna, Korg Pa4x , EC-5, Vienna, Arturia V Collection, Roland SC88 Pro, Roland D110, Alesis SR16, Alesis D4