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Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: What do you use for drum programs?
I know that if you go to Global and make your own drumkit, that there are a lot of Drum Samples (DS) to choose from.
But I want to create HD1 drum programs, not drum kits. You can only choose Wavesequences or Multisamples when making a new program. All of the DS are not visible when creating from scratch.
Is there a way to import folders of kick, snare, and HH samples so that I can use them to create drum programs?
You can only choose Wavesequences or Multisamples when making a new program.
That's true, unless you change the oscillator mode to Drums or Double Drums on the Program P1: Basic/Vector - Program Basic screen first, which gives you access to the global kits you mentioned at the start. If you don't want to create your own custom drum kit in global, then you're going to have to create a new multisample instead, just as you would if importing any synth sample, and assign your drum sounds to the keys you want, etc., etc.
I'm not sure what you really need though. You say folders of kick, snare, HH samples... presumably custom or third-party samples not already in the Kronos? Whichever way you go with this, either making a new global kit or a custom multisample, it's going to be a lot of work probably... So how do you intend to use these custom drum programs?
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:13 pm Post subject:
The goal is to use wave sequencing in Combis.
I'd like to have multiple drum timbres in a Combi, each with their own wave sequence. There are features of Wave Sequencing I really want to use.
I have 3rd party drum samples from a Drum magazine DVD. I want to import them so that I can see them when I create a new drum program.
I'm guessing I need to load them into memory, then go to Sampling mode?
I saw them on the Multisample tab before. I guess I'm supposed to assign each hit (like a kick) to a key/index, then go the next kick and assign that to the following key/index, and so on? Then save it as a KSC so I can have it preload at startup?
I'm guessing I need to load them into memory, then go to Sampling mode?
I saw them on the Multisample tab before. I guess I'm supposed to assign each hit (like a kick) to a key/index, then go the next kick and assign that to the following key/index, and so on? Then save it as a KSC so I can have it preload at startup?
Yeah, that sounds about right. You could probably just create a multisample with only one non-pitched kick spread out across the entire range of the keyboard, and then create a new multisample for the next drum sound. That would probably make it easier to use them in wave sequences so you don't have to worry about which key activates which drum sound. But of course you could also assign all of the sounds to only one multisample, or a few, and keep track of which keys are assigned to what drum sound and play those from the keyboard... whatever works best for your workflow and creative process.
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:53 pm Post subject:
Ok, thanks. I went ahead and tried creating a new KSC.
I get mixed results -- it works, but it still is called New Multisample, and what's worse, there are other New Multisamples but one is an old Crowd Cheer and another is a Twilight Zone intro. I want to keep them all, but somehow I seem to overwrite the last sampling session I have.
But since I quit my band and no longer gig, I don't have to worry about screwing things up before a show. I'll just have to experiment more and learn by trial and error.
but it still is called New Multisample, and what's worse, there are other New Multisamples but one
is an old Crowd Cheer and another is a Twilight Zone intro. I want to keep them all, but somehow I seem to overwrite
the last sampling session I have.
When starting loading samples , only for the first sample/multisample you use "Clear mode" for loading , for all the rest of samples/multisamples
you change to "Append mode" , else every time you're loading resources the latest loading clears all previously imported samples and when finish
you will save "Sampling Data" ... _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 2433 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: What do you use for drum programs?
psionic311 wrote:
I want to create HD1 drum programs, not drum kits.
I take it that you want to create composite drum programs, where you assign different samples and different pitches, then combine them to make new sounds that pitch span the keyboard?
While the drums are selected in global, you can still treat them as an HD-1 oscillator. Did you know that you can select one drum sound and have it span the keyboard? You assign it to the highest key in the drum kit, but all keys below that you leave unassigned. Adjust pitch accordingly.
To start, select an Init Drum Kit from your program oscillator, then when you go to Global it should be right there. Be sure to save that Init Drum Kit after you make changes to it. If you select a different kit, your edits will be gone.
You still get 8 cross-switch/fade points, like an HD-1 ROM sound. You can also have layers by combining two of those points (select LAYER instead of LINEAR). You can select a double drum kit setting, which is similar to HD-1 Oscillator 1 and 2.
As long as you access Global drum kit from the program you are making (select that program, then Global), the effects, etc. will act like you are working from within the program. In TIMBRE/TRACK mode, you use the volume sliders (1 & 2) to hear one drum kit or the other in double drum kit mode.
The filters, lfos, and other modulation still work while in Global, as the program is active whether in Global or Program mode.
If you really want to think outside of the box, you can load 3rd party or user samples into the drum kits. If it's a guitar, piano, etc., you'll have to map each sample, but when you're done you can assign them to any IFX or MFX you like. So, it actually is possible to make programs with individual elements routed to their own effect.
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:29 pm Post subject:
AntonySharmman wrote:
psionic311 wrote:
but it still is called New Multisample, and what's worse, there are other New Multisamples but one
is an old Crowd Cheer and another is a Twilight Zone intro. I want to keep them all, but somehow I seem to overwrite
the last sampling session I have.
When starting loading samples , only for the first sample/multisample you use "Clear mode" for loading , for all the rest of samples/multisamples
you change to "Append mode" , else every time you're loading resources the latest loading clears all previously imported samples and when finish
you will save "Sampling Data" ...
Thanks for bringing this up, I will experiment with this method.
However, if I understand this correctly, this method of appending new sampling data every time will result in one large and growing sample with one single name. I will have to remember then that G#3 was my screeching car sample while D6 is the crying baby sample, correct?
I like how this video explains a method where each sampling session is individually named and saved. This allows you to select which samples to load, instead of just one giant "catalog" of all your samples.
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: What do you use for drum programs?
Mike Conway wrote:
psionic311 wrote:
I want to create HD1 drum programs, not drum kits.
I take it that you want to create composite drum programs, where you assign different samples and different pitches, then combine them to make new sounds that pitch span the keyboard?
While the drums are selected in global, you can still treat them as an HD-1 oscillator. Did you know that you can select one drum sound and have it span the keyboard? You assign it to the highest key in the drum kit, but all keys below that you leave unassigned. Adjust pitch accordingly.
To start, select an Init Drum Kit from your program oscillator, then when you go to Global it should be right there. Be sure to save that Init Drum Kit after you make changes to it. If you select a different kit, your edits will be gone.
You still get 8 cross-switch/fade points, like an HD-1 ROM sound. You can also have layers by combining two of those points (select LAYER instead of LINEAR). You can select a double drum kit setting, which is similar to HD-1 Oscillator 1 and 2.
As long as you access Global drum kit from the program you are making (select that program, then Global), the effects, etc. will act like you are working from within the program. In TIMBRE/TRACK mode, you use the volume sliders (1 & 2) to hear one drum kit or the other in double drum kit mode.
The filters, lfos, and other modulation still work while in Global, as the program is active whether in Global or Program mode.
If you really want to think outside of the box, you can load 3rd party or user samples into the drum kits. If it's a guitar, piano, etc., you'll have to map each sample, but when you're done you can assign them to any IFX or MFX you like. So, it actually is possible to make programs with individual elements routed to their own effect.
Thanks, Mike, this is all new info to me. I've become familiar with creating new wave sequences from Global mode. I get that creating Drum Kits is similar in that you want to first select a Program, then go to Global, as that Program's FX, LFOs, etc, will all dictate what you hear.
However, my main goal is to create wave sequences where I can choose drum parts for each step. Currently, when creating a new wave sequence, you can only choose samples that you would see in an HD1 INIT Program. Needless to say, the drum samples found in drum kits cannot be seen this way.
With your method, it seems pretty nifty to work outside the box to create custom drum programs. But if I understand correctly, your method simply is an HD-1 program but using drum samples. In other words, I cannot create a wave sequence with various drum sounds this way, correct?
Seems I have to learn how to make multisamples. Ideally there would be an acoustic studio kit, a 909 kit, an 808 kit, a garage kit, etc. But each component (acoustic snare, 909 HH, garage crash, etc) would then be available to an INIT Wave Sequence. At least that's the goal.
I was kind of hoping there was some shortcut way to do this, by like importing already pre-made Drum Kits, or Drum Kit soundfonts, as you would import a 3rd party Expansion. With expansions, the imported "programs" make available their individual samples to be used elsewhere, as in Wave Sequences.
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Posts: 2433 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: Re: What do you use for drum programs?
psionic311 wrote:
my main goal is to create wave sequences where I can choose drum parts for each step. Currently, when creating a new wave sequence, you can only choose samples that you would see in an HD1 INIT Program.
Correct. HD-1 and Wave Sequences can only see multisamples, where as a Drum Kit can only see single waves and samples as long as they are saved in a USER_BANK assigned to KSC Autoload (or RAM loaded). Drum Kits can even assign an entire wave song on each key. I tried it!
Quote:
But if I understand correctly, your method simply is an HD-1 program but using drum samples. In other words, I cannot create a wave sequence with various drum sounds this way, correct?
Only if you use the handful of samples in the ROM --Wavestation set, starting with wave 911. There's only a few drum samples, so multisampling drum sounds will be needed to go further.
I made about 90 stereo multisamples out of my E-MU Pro/Cussion drums. You may be able to load in some soundfonts, but I haven't tried that. I just make my own.
This allows you to select which samples to load, instead of just one giant "catalog" of all your samples.
It's far better to have a few samples containers instead of hundreds of different folders and KSC files for loading !
For instance you can create a folder (KSC , _user.KSC & samples) per full drum kit , or better all your Drum Kits in one samples
container with the relevant PCG of all W.S. and then create partial KSC files per drum kit , clearing all memory , loading the WS
from PCG with required samples and then saving KSC as "Save Sampling Data" only ! _________________ Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:44 pm Post subject:
AntonySharmman wrote:
psionic311 wrote:
This allows you to select which samples to load, instead of just one giant "catalog" of all your samples.
It's far better to have a few samples containers instead of hundreds of different folders and KSC files for loading !
For instance you can create a folder (KSC , _user.KSC & samples) per full drum kit , or better all your Drum Kits in one samples
container with the relevant PCG of all W.S. and then create partial KSC files per drum kit , clearing all memory , loading the WS
from PCG with required samples and then saving KSC as "Save Sampling Data" only !
Thanks, I am exploring this option as well. I think you're right, it may be better in the long run to have it all in one place.
Unfortunately at the moment, my understanding is still limited. I have a mess with mixed up samples from before, and I don't know what's where, and everything seems to be on C2, but which one gets priority I don't know.
This is what I have performed and understand successfully now:
- de-select all KSC preloads in Global
- do Auto-Load KSC Now to clear all previous samples in RAM
- go to Disk, find user folder with drum samples
- use Multi Select to LOAD all similar samples (all High Hats)
- go to Sampling mode and assign one sample per key (F#2-A#2)
- go to Disk, Save Sampling Data as Acoustic HH, choose All and force ID
- go back to Global, and re-select all preload KSCs, plus new user_HH.KSC
This method so far enables me to selectively load KSCs so that the sampling data is then available elsewhere, esp after restarting the Kronos. I can now create user Wave Sequences with this drum data. I have successfully made 3 WS:
- Kick, 4 on the floor
- Snare, on beats 2 and 4
- HH on the 8th note upbeats
Then I made new HD-1 programs, one each for Kick, Snare, HH, and used the matching WS. I made sure Key Sync is OFF. This makes sure the sequences play in the correct groove with each other. Also, selecting HOLD in the program makes sure the beat keeps playing on its own.
Then I made a new Drum WS Combi with these HD1 Wavesequences. The key zone for each is limited to one key -- low C2 triggers Kick WS, C#2 has snares on 2 and 4, and A#2 for 8th note HHs.
So now I can use the buttons and sliders to fade in or mute/unmute the automatic drum beats on the fly.
I will combine this with the Combi Drum Kit and user Drum Patterns. I had an idea use multiple drum kits, but limit each timbre to a zone of a single key. This way I can also use the slider and buttons to mute/fade individual drum parts of an already playing complex user rhythm. If I have the Drum Kit window open on the touchscreen, I can also change to another pattern, or transpose the kit, and detune the kit, for fun variations also! This is more of a DJ style approach.
The Combis will also have EXI programs with Step Sequenced bass lines and parts. I will be able to make original and cover song combis this way. This will be an additional method, more fluid and easier to manage than Kronos Sequencer, which I will learn later.
- You don't have to do this trick with unchecked KSC & Do Auto-Load Now !
Every time you load any sample/multisample/KSC , you will be asked in what mode so selecting clear mode will do the job for you !
- There is no need to force new ID in case of new samples loading , if you already have a created KSC you can add more samples
in the same container under the same ID when summary saving "Sampling Data".
- IMO , you must load all your Drum kit samples , save sampling data , use created -user.KSC in Auto-Load interface and day by day
prepare all your WS/Programs and just save only PCG file with all created stuff you have done ...
Later you might choose of what you need for your performance and you will create secondary KSC files with only needed samples.
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 1046 Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:47 pm Post subject:
AntonySharmman wrote:
- You don't have to do this trick with unchecked KSC & Do Auto-Load Now !
Every time you load any sample/multisample/KSC , you will be asked in what mode so selecting clear mode will do the job for you !
If I load a KSC, this is true, it will ask first if you want to Clear or Append. But if I load a raw .wav, like my drum samples, it just loads them automatically without any prompt. Then it appears in the Multisample tab of Sampling mode, at the end of the other loaded samples.
Quote:
- There is no need to force new ID in case of new samples loading , if you already have a created KSC you can add more samples
in the same container under the same ID when summary saving "Sampling Data".
Yes, if I want to create a long sample container, then no need for for new ID.
Quote:
- IMO , you must load all your Drum kit samples , save sampling data , use created -user.KSC in Auto-Load interface and day by day
prepare all your WS/Programs and just save only PCG file with all created stuff you have done ...
Later you might choose of what you need for your performance and you will create secondary KSC files with only needed samples.
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