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korg1
Approved Merchant
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 955
Location: http://pasongstyles.com/
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 Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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That's true!!!!
On other hand, i don't know much about Yamaha's styles or sounds programing ,but i feel that sound programing get's easier since there are filters on Genos as well .
Now, style programing on Korg is at a basic levelin my opinion too.
If you want a detail programing,then everybody knows that Daw is the only fastest and better way to do it.
If for example there were onboard libraries in midi parts ready for reach instrument while starting creating a style,then we would say that on board style programing is easy,as it is now is as much basic as any other arranger.
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| korg1 wrote: | Genos :
-Better quality samples
-Better sound programming especially on articulations
-Ready in the mix sounds
-Better effects and eq. on each each sound |
Having moved from pa4x to Yamaha Genos..
There is some more things i like better on the Genos..
- knobs 6 of them assignable
- assignable buttons (6)
- better interface (touchscreen)
- 32 parts multi timbral, can play styles and midi files at the same time
- ensemble voices.. they are divisi
- huge free style collection readilly available with many user created styles.
- Organ world, more then just B3 drawbars
- real arpeggiator on board..
The most important thing what sets Genos above the pa4x for me is the performance memmories.. you can have 10 or more performance memmories assigned to a song... this makes it so easy in live situations to steptrough the differnet parts of a performance.. which can be assigned to any title in the playlist/songbook
Korg on the other hand rules where it comes to
A) direct flexible live controll of styles
B) edditing and creation of styles, midifiles and sounds..
C) vocal harmony
Where it comes to sound, both arrangers can be made to sound as you want and prefer... it just works different... korg has the power to finetune every sound... yamaha has more dsp effects power..
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| korg1 wrote: | Genos :
-Better quality samples
-Better sound programming especially on articulations
-Ready in the mix sounds
-Better effects and eq. on each each sound |
Having moved from pa4x to Yamaha Genos..
There is some more things i like better on the Genos..
- knobs 6 of them assignable
- assignable buttons (6)
- better interface (touchscreen)
- 32 parts multi timbral, can play styles and midi files at the same time
- ensemble voices.. they are divisi
- huge free style collection readilly available with many user created styles.
- Organ world, more then just B3 drawbars
- real arpeggiator on board..
The most important thing what sets Genos above the pa4x for me is the performance memmories.. you can have 10 or more performance memmories assigned to a song... this makes it so easy in live situations to steptrough the differnet parts of a performance.. which can be assigned to any title in the playlist/songbook
Korg on the other hand rules where it comes to
A) direct flexible live controll of styles
B) edditing and creation of styles, midifiles and sounds..
C) vocal harmony
Where it comes to sound, both arrangers can be made to sound as you want and prefer... it just works different... korg has the power to finetune every sound... yamaha has more dsp effects power..
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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Korghelper
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 584
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| karmathanever wrote: |
Seriously? With a $8,000 price tag? A Kronos arranger? Can you imagine the OS complexity?
I'd rather stay with one of each.
All Yamaha have done is copied some Korg features into a Tyros and renamed it - still a home keyboard (which is fine for their market) - I tried hard to configure mine into a professionally useable box - didn't work at all for many reasons.
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Note I said Kronos ENGINE. The nuts and bolts behind the scene. Manufacturers base a load of products on the same architecture, from up market to home products. The complexity is simply a matter of front end. Dumb down the interface, but leave the CPU intact.
You can diss Yamaha all you like for incorporating some Korg features. As long as you are prepared to have Korg dissed for incorporating a few Roland features! But what is pretty apparent is that the current PA4X architecture is utterly incapable of 256 stereo voices and 28 freely assigned very high quality insert effects (by the way, to those squabbling over the lack of a 3-band versus a 2-band EQ, there is a 3-band in the insert effects choices... Need 28 of them?!).
It's all well and good to knock other products if your personal choice can do what those you knock can. But the PA4X lacks a ton of really useful things the Genos can do. As the Genos lacks some things the PA4X can do. And both of them lack some things the Roland's can do. We can play this game all night long!
Professional results can be had with any of todays top arrangers. Putting other brands down doesn't make yours better. We've come to the end of what the current Korg arranger architecture is capable of. Far less expensive synths and arrangers have far better effects architectures, and for anyone to claim superiority of a product with such a lackluster effects architecture smacks of partisanship. Nowadays, the standard is quickly becoming at least one insert per Part, across keyboard and style/sequencer Parts. Korg are woefully lacking. So much for 'pro'... The PA4X doesn't even have the effects capability of a BK-9.
Korg can easily find a way to leverage the code and CPU architecture of the Kronos without it costing what a Kronos does. And this is the only path forward for them if they want to remain cutting edge. They have already recouped their investment by charging an arm and a leg for the technology. They can afford to trickle it down to other keyboards now without it being so expensive. |
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D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1196
Location: UK (Dorset)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Always interesting to read this type of thread... I wonder if the anticipation is going to be greater than the event? or will we see what many feel is time for the next major evolutionary DNA change after the PA4X... it's clear reading through this thread and others it must be almost time for this... so we wait with anticipation and continue to enjoy the PA4X.
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Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer :
Last edited by D575 on Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:59 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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chelsea4023
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Posts: 467
Location: West London, U.K.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
Not read all the posts on this thread but tend to steer away when I read people bashing other Manufacturer's keyboards. I liken it to owners of Mercedes and B.M.W.'s, both of which I would be pround to own. At the end of the day it comes down to personal taste, and although they are both incredible cars I personally would opt for the Mercedes. Doesn't make B.M.W.'s bad cars.
Regarding arrangers, didn't the PA4X come onto the market nearly four years ago and the Yamaha Genos came onto the market nearly two years ago. That's an extra two years of design and technology for Yamaha. I'd expect the more expensive Genos to be better than the PA4X.
My betting is that the successor to the PA4X will be even better than the Genos.
Chris |
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Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| chelsea4023 wrote: | Hi,
Not read all the posts on this thread but tend to steer away when I read people bashing other Manufacturer's keyboards. I liken it to owners of Mercedes and B.M.W.'s, both of which I would be pround to own. At the end of the day it comes down to personal taste, and although they are both incredible cars I personally would opt for the Mercedes. Doesn't make B.M.W.'s bad cars.
Regarding arrangers, didn't the PA4X come onto the market nearly four years ago and the Yamaha Genos came onto the market nearly two years ago. That's an extra two years of design and technology for Yamaha. I'd expect the more expensive Genos to be better than the PA4X.
My betting is that the successor to the PA4X will be even better than the Genos.
Chris |
There is no right or wrong it is what works for you.
You are right the next 4X should be much superior to a Genos, as it is I am holding off buying one.
Personally I would choose BMW over a Merc any day, the Mercs are all terrible inside except for the S, had two Merc loaners for a week each and both were dire, uncomfortable with cheap and nasty plastic inside, but I am spoiled driving what I do which is another Marques mid sized SUV.
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Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Remembering my lovely M3...
Would a modular build like the m3 where keybed and module are sepperate work well for a pa5x pro arranger?
For me, it actually would be perfect..
The module part, like that
Would work like a dream with a nord stage, kronos or Montage...
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| chelsea4023 wrote: | | My betting is that the successor to the PA4X will be even better than the Genos. |
In many ways it already is, although I understand what you are saying....
Yamaha still need to bend and twist that Genos/Tyros-6 into a professional keyboard with some higher quality styles - they are way off IMHO
But, yes, nice sounds and nice touch screen, and at last, a joystick!!!! (I wonder where they got those ideas from  )
Pete
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PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| karmathanever wrote: | | chelsea4023 wrote: | | My betting is that the successor to the PA4X will be even better than the Genos. |
In many ways it already is, although I understand what you are saying....
Yamaha still need to bend and twist that Genos/Tyros-6 into a professional keyboard with some higher quality styles - they are way off IMHO
But, yes, nice sounds and nice touch screen, and at last, a joystick!!!! (I wonder where they got those ideas from )
Pete |
It functions well as a professional keyboard..
(As long as you dont play outside)
However, it takes a whole different approach as the pa4x..
You prepare every song in advance and use the performance memmories
These work like scenes in a song..
There is enough power in the editor to create every sound and style you need..
And the magnitude of the dsp power is unbeleivable..
There is work arounds for nearly everything.. like using the sequencer as a chordsequencer..
In the end both the pa4x as well as the Genos have features that make the other (dark) side jealous..
But that also goes for kronos, montage, ketron, gadget, ableton live, omnisphere... and whatever not... all have features missing on both Genos as well as pa4x that would in some form just make sense for the leading arranger keyboard of the 21st century..
There is one thing i can tell you, the real innovation will not come from Yamaha, which offers an opportunity for Korg... but in a shrincking market its hard to justify huge investments..
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Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
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siebenhirter
Platinum Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 1843
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: Pa5x - real innovations ... its hard to justify huge investm |
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| Bachus wrote: | | ... both the pa4x as well as the Genos have features .... |
... this is already right for top-devices. Meanwhile also midrange-arrangers are well-featured and also have power to create sounds and styles one need.
No matter whether somebody uses his keyboard with songs (MP3, WAV, SMF), with styles or without background - an important thing what sets one device above the other is its handling.
In each case with arranger-keyboards it should be easy to step through different parts of a performance. That really should be possible without to be fixed on a certain order and without additional effort also to be able to use individual variations. Also stepthrough optionally should be possible either independently or assigned to any title in the playlist/songbook.
*
| Bachus wrote: | | ...... the real innovation will not come ... but in a shrincking market its hard to justify huge investments ...... |
A user-friendly conception for a good handling often need no huge investments or innovation. Sometimes it would be enough not to let disappear sensible functions, which prevent to use an arranger-kbd furthermore as usual with previous devices.
Instead to dearly expect real innovations of sounds, dsp, styles or whatever - some more assignable buttons, dynamic control of the style tracks, reg-sequencer/sb-setlist without automatically enforced changing realtime-tracks, buttons for direct access to perfomance-switches (Auto-select on/off, OriginalStyleSound on/off ..) and similar small, helpful functions would be an unbelievable relief.
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kind regards
- siebenhirter, austria -
Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de |
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Korghelper
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 584
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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You want a ‘professional’ feature the Genos has that Korg lacks other than double the polyphony and 28 insert effects? (Amazing how hard some of us are trying to ignore that elephant in the room!).
OK... how about Ensemble Mode, the very thing that is behind most of the top line VSTi’s these days..?
Automatic voicing for multi-instrument ensembles. Instead of every note being a trumpet, a saxophone and a trombone (so every note added changes the size of the section) Ensemble mode voices the chord so trumpet is at the top, sax in the middle and trombone is at the bottom (or whatever you prefer) and the ensemble stays the same size.
It’s a game changer for live realism and is the foundation of many truly ‘pro’ VSTi’s...
I too am getting a little tired of reading so many one sided posts from people I know only too well are aware of other keyboard’s strengths but are unwilling to admit them. |
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Aripearlmusic
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 342
Location: BROOKLYN NY
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| Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Korg has that ensemble feature. If you set the right key range on the oscillators and combine the oscillators of 2 horns per sound and use upper 1, 2, and 3 with most of the ensemble harmony options you will get a 6 sound ensemble with proper voicing (assuming you play it right of course) ive been able to pull off an 18 sound ensemble with over a dozen controllable articulations besides key switches, breath control and expression.
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Ari Pearl Music
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Niki_Keyz
Full Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 107
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Not really important but if korg does release a pa5x, they should really update the drum kits and styles we had on all the previous PAs.
The styles and drum kits are there for people to use but from what era are they from? I don’t hear any music TODAY made with anything close to those drum kits or styles.
Just my opinion people. |
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Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3126
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Niki_Keyz wrote: | Not really important but if korg does release a pa5x, they should really update the drum kits and styles we had on all the previous PAs.
The styles and drum kits are there for people to use but from what era are they from? I don’t hear any music TODAY made with anything close to those drum kits or styles.
Just my opinion people. |
This is the main reason why arrangers are a dying breed..
Its not just Korg, but all arranger keys..
Modern styles are from the 80’s or 90’s of last century..
They should start making styles for todays music.
While at the same time catching up for the last 2 deccades..
Seems however korg does not dare to push arrangers in that direction..
Thats because this is Kronos terrotority..
They should start with adding va and fm from the kronos
And karma and engines that emulate other keyb instruments
And then use all of that in styles..
I will take this a step further, the launchpads of ketron are more suited for todays music then korg or yamaha’s traditional music style engine
Adapt to that..
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
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