 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:43 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Bachus wrote: | | Niki_Keyz wrote: | Not really important but if korg does release a pa5x, they should really update the drum kits and styles we had on all the previous PAs.
The styles and drum kits are there for people to use but from what era are they from? I don’t hear any music TODAY made with anything close to those drum kits or styles.
Just my opinion people. |
This is the main reason why arrangers are a dying breed..
Its not just Korg, but all arranger keys..
Modern styles are from the 80’s or 90’s of last century..
They should start making styles for todays music.
While at the same time catching up for the last 2 deccades..
Seems however korg does not dare to push arrangers in that direction..
Thats because this is Kronos terrotority..
They should start with adding va and fm from the kronos
And karma and engines that emulate other keyb instruments
And then use all of that in styles..
I will take this a step further, the launchpads of ketron are more suited for todays music then korg or yamaha’s traditional music style engine
Adapt to that.. |
I am not sure that I completely agree.
I do agree that the arrangers of today should offer more modern sounds and sound packs (drums, pianos, EPs, etc...) and make them more compatible with 3rd party stuff much easier. Expanding the available memory (Flash, RAM, whatever) would make this easier to do.
With the arranger portions, it is simply a matter of programming content that meet today's styles. This too can be done by the manufacturer or again, third party companies. The arranger portion is a template that can be infinitely updated through the programming of new styles.
There are a number of solo artists and groups (maybe more than we even realize) that need styles from all genres and all eras of music. I know that personally, I use most eras and genres of music depending on the gig I am doing. For my nursing home ministry, a good number of Big-Band, Country, Waltzes, etc.. are needed. By and large, Korg meets this, as do the third party additions I have added. For my band, we do more rock and progressive and it is lacking. For my solo stuff, I use the MP3 soundbeds I create in my studio and simply play over the top with custom Keyboard Sets. Styles are not important for me with my solo stuff.
For rock and such, there could be more variation and the sounds (especially distorted rhythm guitar) could be better. This not the fault of the style, but rather effects to make the guitars more 'real'. More styles for progressive music would be appreciated, but with the time signature changes and tempo changes, that might be more difficult.
Since I do not play any rap, those don't personally matter to me.
For R&B and Soul, there could be a few more styles to reflect the modern grooves.
It seems as though it is a matter of programming styles to make the arrangers more 'relevant' to today's stuff. The tech is there, we just need to program it...
I would, personally, LOVE to see KARMA implemented in an arranger. I think that many of our issues may be resolved as a result.
Arrangers kind of get a bad rap because many people want new stuff in it, and while they do supply some of it, there could be more content.
I think that adding FM and VA and stuff kind of moves the arranger away from what the initial arranger was designed to do. While those may be a great addition, I think that it moves the arranger to more of a synth instead of a 'box' with styles in it.
Having something like a Kronos with arranger functions would be the best, but what would the cost be? I see it being fairly cost-prohibitive for most users in a unit like that.
Are we willing to purchase a unit with all the features from the Kronos and the PA Series for around $5K to $6K? I think that it would put it out of reach for many, if not most, users. I would be included in that group, at least for a while. Maybe the ultimate arranger unit would be a combination of the full functionality of the Kronos (multiple audio outs and everything) and the PA4X.
Another function of the arranger, at least for me, is the ability to plug in start playing. This requires internal speakers. It is vital, at least for me, to have in-built speakers so I do not need to bring a PA to most gigs. I am fine with bringing a PA to some, but I perform 4-5 times a day on many days. Dragging an external PA system increases set up time and makes my rig less portable. Maybe that is the difference between the PSR consumer series and the professional series. Since I do both, I would still prefer something with speakers in it. I can always turn off the speakers when I use an external PA system.
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1012
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I certainly do not agree with internal amp and speakers, in fact I would prefer if none of the PA keyboards had inbuilt amp and speakers, they just add weight and additional circuitry.
Far better an Add On system like the PAS or use a PA system.
No onboard amp and speakers would also keep costs down.
_________________
Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Biggles wrote: | I certainly do not agree with internal amp and speakers, in fact I would prefer if none of the PA keyboards had inbuilt amp and speakers, they just add weight and additional circuitry.
Far better an Add On system like the PAS or use a PA system.
No onboard amp and speakers would also keep costs down. |
Maybe for those whose PA Series arranger does not see anything but studio use or they are in a band situation, or they regularly play venues that require additional amplification.
I rather like the idea of portability and everything in one package. If the internal system is robust enough (it is in the PA700/PA1000), it fills the room. the only thing that I would add to the internal system is ports on the back to allow the full range to be projected to the audience.
For the 40-50 performances I do each month at the nursing homes, around 10% require an external PA system. The other homes work just fine with the internal system.
Even my most portable PA system for shows is an extra 50 pounds, and that is including the cart to bring the additional gear. Most of my performances are around an hour each, so portability is key for me.
I actually have three PA systems:
1. (2) Samson Expedition Escape powered speakers (15w each).
2. (2) Rockville RPG8 powered speakers (100w each).
3. (2) Harbinger M350 2.1 systems (350w each). I can bring one of these to certain gigs and it is fine enough.
For my outdoor gigs, I use both the Harbinger units (they can be configured for mono or stereo), the Rockvilles (for my monitors), and the PA700.
Some of my jobs are space-limited so having in-built speakers really makes sense for me 
I see your point and if I were doing just band stuff or gigs that always required an external PA, not having in-built speakers would be preferable
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aripearlmusic
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 350
Location: BROOKLYN NY
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not having built-in speakers extends the life of the machine because the low end frequencies can cause the wiring to dislodge over time and even soldered connections.
_________________
Ari Pearl Music
Sound Developer for the 5x and 4x at https://performersheaven.com/en/shop-en/by-author-en/ari-en |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aripearlmusic wrote: | | Not having built-in speakers extends the life of the machine because the low end frequencies can cause the wiring to dislodge over time and even soldered connections. |
Maybe so, but in my experience, it has never happened to me. I would think that it would potentially cause as much damage as moving the unit constantly.
Before the PA700, I used a Roland E-09 for over 13 years and never had an issue wit anything coming apart inside I replaced buttons, power supplies, and foot pedals more than anything. I never had a structural issue at all, nor any loose connections in the unit.
It is something to be aware of though, for sure
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Biggles
Platinum Member
Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 1012
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would presume that the vast majority of Arrangers sit in a room of the ownes homer and that they do not get transported from venue to venue.
Additionally if like me they do not have a dedicated studio then the keyboard sits in a corner of an available room which in my case is our Dining Room which happens to be part of our Lounge (L shaped with the smaller leg the Dining Room) and hence I play mine wearing Headphones so an inbuilt amp and speaker system is an additional cost element within the keyboard that I could well have done without.
I am pretty sure that many others play using headphones and if needed a pair of powered speakers for home use is not especially expensive
_________________
Biggles
Lancashire, UK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Korghelper
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 584
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aripearlmusic wrote: | | Korg has that ensemble feature. If you set the right key range on the oscillators and combine the oscillators of 2 horns per sound and use upper 1, 2, and 3 with most of the ensemble harmony options you will get a 6 sound ensemble with proper voicing (assuming you play it right of course) ive been able to pull off an 18 sound ensemble with over a dozen controllable articulations besides key switches, breath control and expression. |
Actually, no. The whole idea of the Ensemble is, play one note or four, it only uses four voices. It is an automatic divisi, if you want the technical musical explanation. It doesn't need key ranges (it works over the entire range of the instrument).Play one note, all voices play the one note. Play four notes, they split out automatically to one voice per note. It is equally good for small string ensembles, so tutti and divisi have the same power (every extra note of a string ensemble doubles the size of the ensemble when the sample is of the whole ensemble).
You get very weird things happening to notes if you change the number of voices in a chord while they are held when you use Korg's system (which isn't really used on any of Korg's sounds, AFAIK). I'm guessing you've never tried Yamaha's Ensemble mode? It's about the closest thing to a proper divisi mode like VSTi's use in a keyboard at the moment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aripearlmusic
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 350
Location: BROOKLYN NY
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
I tried it out on the T5 and the Genos and i found that the 4x when set properly has much more natural sounding ensemble voicing just as good as Session Strings Pro 2 and Session Horns even better in some ways after i sampled them on it
_________________
Ari Pearl Music
Sound Developer for the 5x and 4x at https://performersheaven.com/en/shop-en/by-author-en/ari-en |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
B.Safe
Full Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 145
Location: Paris, France
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aripearlmusic wrote: | | Not having built-in speakers extends the life of the machine because the low end frequencies can cause the wiring to dislodge over time and even soldered connections. |
If that were true, I would never buy powered speakers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
duby2
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 1379
Location: USA Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: mz x500 |
|
|
Musicwithharry
!00% Right .
we have pa4x , no speaker and pa1000 with speaker ,
internal system is ports on the back to allow the full range to be projected to the audience..
just like the Casio MZ-X500 Arranger workstation Keyboard |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: mz x500 |
|
|
| duby2 wrote: | Musicwithharry
!00% Right .
we have pa4x , no speaker and pa1000 with speaker ,
internal system is ports on the back to allow the full range to be projected to the audience..
just like the Casio MZ-X500 Arranger workstation Keyboard |
The ports on the PA700 are more bass ports for anything and when I stand/sit in the audience before a performance, I hear the bass quite clearly The keyboard sounds full and the bass ports help quite a bit. The keyboard sounds bigger than it really is
What I would hope for is another port, or even another set of speakers, aimed to the audience. The Studiologic Numa 2 Compact comes to mind. Their speakers are on the rear, facing the audience.
It would be neat for Korg to implement something like this too in their arranger series. There could also be a software switch to:
1. Activate the top-firing speakers for personal playing.
2. Activate the rear-firing speakers to project to the audience.
3. Activate both pair of speakers at the same time.
4. Turn off all of the speakers so you can use headphones or use the outputs to go to an external PA system.
I think that having this type of functionality would increase sales a bit too for some users.
I have thought about customizing my PA700 to allow for an additional pair of ports, designed more for projecting the sound of the speaker to the rear (audience) but it would likely cause issues with the bass ports already in the unit. A second pair of speakers would really be best in this case.
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
karmathanever
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10404
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A new Korg arranger with "built-in" speakers would encourage me to go back to Yamaha. 
...so, Korg team, if you are planning that, PLEASE give us a "no-Speakers" option like we have right now.
_________________
PA4X-76, Karma, WaveDrum GE, Fantom 8 EX
------------------------------------------------------------------
## Please stay safe ##
...and play lots of music
------------------------------------------------------------------ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Musicwithharry
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 694
Location: Anamosa, IA
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| karmathanever wrote: | A new Korg arranger with "built-in" speakers would encourage me to go back to Yamaha.
...so, Korg team, if you are planning that, PLEASE give us a "no-Speakers" option like we have right now.
|
I get where you are coming from. If I did studio stuff all the time or a gig situation where I was more stationary, I would want something without speakers, myself.
Since I do up to 4-5 gigs a day, having the in-built speakers is really helpful.
I have a stage piano in my studio with a really robust speaker system. Since it primarily resides in my studio, I never turn them on All of my other synths do not have internal speakers that are in my studio.
I have never really seen in-built speakers as a hindrance or a lack of professionalism, unless they are really crappy speakers....
There are some gigs I do where the internal speakers are my monitor source while I am playing a bigger room where I am using an external PA system. That too makes it a useful tool for me...
Grace,
Harry
_________________
Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aripearlmusic
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Jun 2018
Posts: 350
Location: BROOKLYN NY
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="B.Safe"][quote="Aripearlmusic"]Not having built-in speakers extends the life of the machine because the low end frequencies can cause the wiring to dislodge over time and even soldered connections.[/quote]If that were true, I would never buy powered speakers [/quote]
Ive repaired over 20 speakers that had that happen to them. It happens to speakers all the time regardless of whether they are powered or not
_________________
Ari Pearl Music
Sound Developer for the 5x and 4x at https://performersheaven.com/en/shop-en/by-author-en/ari-en |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Korghelper
Platinum Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 584
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The accuracy of built in speakers is easy to check compared to decent reference monitors (or a high quality PA). Play a high quality, well recorded commercial WAV or high bitrate MP3 on a set of studio monitors (or the PA), then play the same thing through the arranger's built-ins.
Unless you are deaf, you will hear an enormous difference. Highs, mid-range, lows, all will sound totally different. Let's be honest here. If decent sounding speakers could be made as small as arrangers' are, we would ALL be using them..! And the louder you get, the worse it becomes.
Arranger speakers are a convenience for people without decent speakers already, but the minute you have a decent pair, you'll never be happy with built-ins again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
