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Pa5x around the corner?
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There’s nothing ‘mandatory’ in audio. There is simply the skill to use the tools provided, or the desire to come up with excuses why less than stellar results aren’t ones own fault.
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Aripearlmusic
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Korghelper"]There’s nothing ‘mandatory’ in audio. There is simply the skill to use the tools provided, or the desire to come up with excuses why less than stellar results aren’t ones own fault.[/quote]

Haha remind me never to buy your music.
I always say if "Good enough" is your goal then don't do it to begin with.

Gain staging, gain control, and proper EQ is mandatory. Anyone who thinks otherwise is happy with their yamaha and and needing a day job supporting their music hobby.
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Ari Pearl Music
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Bachus
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aripearlmusic wrote:
For the last time the 3 band EQ im talking about should be both on each channel as well as every note of every drum kit and on every layer of every sound otherwise you cant target a specific layer and it becomes a Bus EQ. Try mixing a kick or bass with a 2 band EQ and let me know when you have to give up. All yamaha sounds need a 3 band because not a single one is mixed well enough to program with. The main reason why they sound better when sampled onto a korg is because korg gives all the tools NECESSARY and basically all the shortcuts as well. The Genos and the Tyros do not have the ability to multitrack the audio beyond 2 bus outputs. If they put any work into the sampling in the last 8 years you would hope that they would at least sample one thing properly but they still haven't improved their sample library because they have been too busy on developing presets. Professional sound and style developers dont need presets. They need the necessary tools to create and modify their own. This is why Yamaha is home keyboard and not for gigging professionals


Have it your way...

I guess most people have different needs
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Aripearlmusic
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most people dont know jack about programming keyboards and mixing/sampling so why should we let them set the standard by what they think they need?
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Ari Pearl Music
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rikkisbears
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, how did a simple question on a possible PA5X arranger turn into a slanging match on EQ.

Hi Bachus,
considering the recent upgrade, might still be a bit of a wait for next model.

Anyway, be interesting to see what they come up with next.
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:
Casio on the other hand are on the up but have a mountain to climb.

They certainly lead the way in the "workstation-arranger" concept:-

    Full arranger functionality
    WAV recording
    Sampling
    Sequencing
    Chord sequencing
    Sound editing
    Audio player
    MIDI player
    Touch screen
    Import of styles from other vendor (e.g. Yamaha)
    Hammond Leslie emulation (9 sliders)
    Hex-layer sounds utilising 9 sliders and up to 24 layered sounds.
    Mic input with effects
    Multi function velocity sensitive pads
    ....and more!!

Casio won't keep it up though - they never seem to attract the more technical market - great shame - they have a winner concept already.

Pete Very Happy
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aripearlmusic wrote:
Most people dont know jack about programming keyboards and mixing/sampling so why should we let them set the standard by what they think they need?


Quite simply because Korg are making Arrangers for the majority of users and not an elitist few.

Surely anyone serious about their music will at some stage seriously consider supplementing their PA with a synth/workstation which as you are no doubt aware are considerably more suitable for programming and for creating soundfonts than a PA.

Like it or not the vast majority of buyers of any PA or yes even an Arranger made by another Company are not professional full time Musicians, they are hobbyist, learners, and improvers.
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aripearlmusic wrote:
Korghelper wrote:
There’s nothing ‘mandatory’ in audio. There is simply the skill to use the tools provided, or the desire to come up with excuses why less than stellar results aren’t ones own fault.


Haha remind me never to buy your music.
I always say if "Good enough" is your goal then don't do it to begin with.

Gain staging, gain control, and proper EQ is mandatory. Anyone who thinks otherwise is happy with their yamaha and and needing a day job supporting their music hobby.


50 years of playing professional full-time. New York session player, orchestra, pit orchestra, live band, and solo work. Go back to making lame excuses why you can’t get good results. The rest of us will be making professional music with whatever we have on hand.
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Biggles
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korghelper wrote:
Aripearlmusic wrote:
Korghelper wrote:
There’s nothing ‘mandatory’ in audio. There is simply the skill to use the tools provided, or the desire to come up with excuses why less than stellar results aren’t ones own fault.


Haha remind me never to buy your music.
I always say if "Good enough" is your goal then don't do it to begin with.

Gain staging, gain control, and proper EQ is mandatory. Anyone who thinks otherwise is happy with their yamaha and and needing a day job supporting their music hobby.


50 years of playing professional full-time. New York session player, orchestra, pit orchestra, live band, and solo work. Go back to making lame excuses why you can’t get good results. The rest of us will be making professional music with whatever we have on hand.


Korghelper

Biting retort and I can fully understand your response.

If you do a Google search for the member concerned you will find interesting results ......... zilch.

wacky:
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Biggles
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D575
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soooo..... revisiting Bachus opening lines from this thread, who (Bachus) incidentally has shown historically sound logic with keen observation and detailed understanding with all things keyboard related, then I am sure many of us on this forum would agree with Bachus when it come to any future specifications considering a PA4X replacement... then from a constructive point of view when considering in essence what has been a winning flagship formula but in some ways is starting to show some limitation in design... for this to continue to evolve successfully it must surely be time for a radical or serious increase in processing power (simply put), this would open the doors to many more possibilities and improvement which have been discussed in there many forms over time on this forum.... so speculate we can and will and what ever is just around the corner to replace the PA4X I would imagine any hardware specification have been fixed by now... let's hope the developers have been keeping a close eye on this forum and a far.....
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Last edited by D575 on Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:56 am; edited 4 times in total
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rikkisbears
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggles wrote:

Like it or not the vast majority of buyers of any PA or yes even an Arranger made by another Company are not professional full time Musicians, they are hobbyist, learners, and improvers.


Hi Biggles,
tend to think you’re right. Maybe ignorant hobbyists like myself should put HOBBYIST, next to our avatar. Haha.

The idea of a forum is try to help people not abuse them, or at least it used to be.
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of professionals using Yamaha (and Roland, and Ketron, and dare one say it, maybe even Casio!). Contrary to what might be read here, professionals criteria for what fits their needs are not predicated by a mere EQ.

My whole point has been that we cannot find a single instance of a 'pro' arranger that isn't missing at least SOMETHING from someone else's idea of what is 'essential'.

Currently, Korg's basic architecture is possibly the longest in the tooth of all the remaining players, and even lags some now apparently retired manufacturers in some quite important features (to those who actually need a decent supply of insert effects!). IMHO, given the competition ramping up, it's time for a reboot, not just another incremental step.

After all, isn't that what we used to criticize Yamaha for?! It's tough to point one's finger if unwilling to have it pointed back at oneself. Whether one considers a 3 band EQ or enough insert effects to cover any need as the primary 'pro' indicator, it's impossible to label ANY arranger as the be all and end all.

I have heard extremely impressive demos of every arranger ever made. And I have heard absolute garbage from the exact same machine! Maybe it's not about EQ bands..?

Maybe it's about talent.
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rikkisbears
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korghelper wrote:


My whole point has been that we cannot find a single instance of a 'pro' arranger that isn't missing at least SOMETHING from someone else's idea of what is 'essential'.


I have heard extremely impressive demos of every arranger ever made. And I have heard absolute garbage from the exact same machine! Maybe it's not about EQ bands..?

Maybe it's about talent.


Well put.
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D575
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korghelper wrote:
Plenty of professionals using Yamaha (and Roland, and Ketron, and dare one say it, maybe even Casio!). Contrary to what might be read here, professionals criteria for what fits their needs are not predicated by a mere EQ.

My whole point has been that we cannot find a single instance of a 'pro' arranger that isn't missing at least SOMETHING from someone else's idea of what is 'essential'.

Currently, Korg's basic architecture is possibly the longest in the tooth of all the remaining players, and even lags some now apparently retired manufacturers in some quite important features (to those who actually need a decent supply of insert effects!). IMHO, given the competition ramping up, it's time for a reboot, not just another incremental step.

After all, isn't that what we used to criticize Yamaha for?! It's tough to point one's finger if unwilling to have it pointed back at oneself. Whether one considers a 3 band EQ or enough insert effects to cover any need as the primary 'pro' indicator, it's impossible to label ANY arranger as the be all and end all.

I have heard extremely impressive demos of every arranger ever made. And I have heard absolute garbage from the exact same machine! Maybe it's not about EQ bands..?

Maybe it's about talent.
Quite right... and I will be some what surprised if korg don't "up there game" after the PA4X other wise I will sit tight with my PA4X until they do.
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Korg PA4X-76 : Roland Jupiter-80 : Yamaha Montage-7 : Roland Integra-7 : Waldorf String Synth : Drawmer 1973 Multi-Band Compressor : Kush Audio Clariphonic EQ : Munro Sonic Egg-150 Monitors Mk2 : Focusrite Dual ISA Preamp : SPL Tube Vitalizer : Tascam DA-3000 : Lexicon Processor : Allen & Heath Zed-420 : TC Clarity-M : RME Babyface Pro + (iFi Audio USB iPurifier 3) : Behringer X-Touch ONE : Advanced Balanced Mains Power Supply : iFi AC iPurifer (x5) : Multiple RA-Fillters : Sonarworks Ref-4 : Soundtheory Gullfoss : (((((A@424.4hz)))))
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Aripearlmusic
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If korg made their arranger keyboards for the vast majority who barely scratch the surface of programming and sampling it would look exactly as it does because those guys rely on the programmers and samplers having the tools necessary to create the styles and sounds that the average players don't know how to make.

As far as insert effects go 4 inserts for a style is more than enough if you know how to set a reverb and delay and use dynamics and EQ with proper gain staging. Most of the filtering effects can be done without using one with clever use of sound mode and the additional available sound controls when using a DAW.

A 3 band EQ insert and the traditional mixer channel EQ effects the sound it's on as a whole. What if you only want to cut certain frequencies on one oscillator in a multi-layered sound? korg has that wonderful option but yamaha doesnt.

I don't advertise on google because it pays pennies on the dollar and i prefer to deal with my customers directly.

Laugh all you want about the fact that I barely have an online presence but it's my choice and keeps my contact info off the telemarketers lists. I made over 250k in the last year just from programming and sampling for the 4x. I think that qualifies as successful.

I've programmed many synths like the JV1080, XV5080, Motif ES7, DX7ii, Triton Studio and Triton Extreme, Jupiter 8, JD990.... They sound great but you cannot play One Man Band style (+) with them because they are Synths and Synth Workstations not Arranger Workstations. They could do so much more and so much less because they are not standalone machines in that setting
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