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As long as we’re wishing
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Cathy



Joined: 26 Aug 2019
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject: As long as we’re wishing Reply with quote

Here’s what I think Korg should do with their arrangers:

1-Styles...
This area should be left empty so users can load their own preferences instead of using space for styles in all likelihood we’d never use.

2-Sounds...
Same as styles!

That’s it!

Ps-if a person writes in needing help with something, it should be illegal ( punishable by firing squad) to say, “look in the freaking manual idiot!”
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Biggles
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Joined: 31 Aug 2017
Posts: 566

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deja Vu
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PA700, Kross 2
Lancashire, UK.
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Cathy



Joined: 26 Aug 2019
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried to delete this duplication with no success.
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 8712
Location: Australia (Oz !!)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cathy wrote:
if a person writes in needing help with something, it should be illegal ( punishable by firing squad) to say, “look in the freaking manual idiot!”


Who said that? ...and where...? Please provide a link to that post - thanks.

Cathy wrote:
Here’s what I think Korg should do with their arrangers:
1-Styles...
This area should be left empty so users can load their own preferences instead of using space for styles in all likelihood we’d never use.
2-Sounds...
Same as styles!


So you're saying Korg should offer a completely empty arranger? Well, that would give Korg a huge market edge Wink - first time "out-of-the-box" would be really exciting Confused
I assume you realise that YOU can actually empty your arranger if you wish.
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Korg:------ PA4X-76, Kronos-61, WaveDrum Global
Roland:---- Integra-7, HS5
Premier:--- Mid 90's Genista
Yamaha:--- DTXtreme IIIs
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Cathy



Joined: 26 Aug 2019
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you can empty out the styles set in rom or are they in rom?
No, I didn’t know that and as far as their “market edge” I do
think that not dedicating the limited memory resources with
things we won’t use is very market friendly. If you don’t agree
that’s okay, we’re not debating anything life changing.
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korg1
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Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 537
Location: http://pasongstyles.com/

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

She Probably means that banks should stop at the last written entry,and when you add styles,the bank automatically inserts a new entry location,so you don't have empty pages after your last style.

-You can delete even factory banks and styles if you remove protect from Global Mode preferences,just detick the box ''FACTORY'' .
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 8712
Location: Australia (Oz !!)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cathy(Scott) wrote:
1-Styles...
This area should be left empty so users can load their own preferences instead of using space for styles in all likelihood we’d never use.........

......limited memory resources with things we won’t use is.........


Who is "we"? Do you mean "I"?
And as Korg1 says (and I said) - you can empty your PA4X styles completely if you wish - ALL style banks can be overwritten.

I was merely saying that if Korg developed an "empty" arranger (no styles), then they'd lose all their business in the arranger market.
(Do you work for Yamaha? Wink )

Very Happy
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BillTracy



Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the OP is referring to having the arranger come with just the operating system and being able to download (from Korg) only the sounds and styles you need. Presumably, the benefit would be additional available memory for the user.
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jpires
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Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 257
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: pa4x Reply with quote

I agree with Pete
It is an arranger therefore if must have STYLES.
There is a bunch of user banks that you can program your own Styles
Just my opinion.
JP
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Korghelper
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that Korg should sell a 'blank' arranger, but I believe there's a VERY strong case for loading the arranger with different genre Banks, and having no ROM Style Group labels on the front panel.

It's a very hard sell to get a youngster (under 30!) interested in a keyboard that is mostly loaded to the gills with polkas, waltzes, bigband and cha-chas! Yes, there are some very contemporary styles in there too, but you lose the sale the minute the kid accidentally (or deliberately!) tries out one of these hokey banks.

I believe that arrangers will sell better to young players if the banks only contain modern styles. The salesman can easily point out that, if they WANT older style banks, they are easily loaded in. But don't rub their noses in it! Styles and sets that leverage the arpeggiator feature, some built-in loops already set sliced and tempo-locked, multipads with all kinds of electronica effects. What modern musician wouldn't go for that?

But the minute he sees stuff even his grandparents don't listen to (remember, most grandparents grew up in the 60's and even 70's, nowadays!) he's off to look at the latest workstation, loaded to the max with beats and sounds straight off the charts, even though they COULD do equally hokey music if their programmers were as suicidal as arranger programmers are!

There's nothing wrong with arrangers for making modern music as long as there are at least some arpeggiation and loop tools included. But one bank of polkas and they won't even bother trying.

I feel that stores need the opportunity to load in what they think the customer wants. I would bet the majority of browsers in a store are on the younger side. So load up the arranger with the latest, freshest stuff, and if the salesman sees an older customer, go over and say 'Hold on while I load in the Classic Styles' and totally change the 'ROM' (although that's not what it is!). Alternatively, have TWO arrangers in stock, load one with the modern stuff, the other with the oldies. Both customers walk away thinking 'Wow! This thing is designed for ME!'.

Rather than the current system, where both customers, if they accidentally wander into the wrong Banks, end up going 'Yikes! This is terrible!'

I bring to your attention the little Rapman arranger that sold like hotcakes to the kids, precisely because it concentrated on modern sounds and styles, and didn't alienate young buyers with banks of polkas and bigband. Korg already make the hardware, but shoot themselves in the foot trying to sell it loaded with content that alienates BOTH age groups (I've certainly heard enough comments on here about content that older users would never use!).

But now that ROM is a thing of the past, perhaps it's time Korg (and the rest) start realizing how much of a sales killer those older styles are in a store, when they can be easily added later...
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Niki_Keyz



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 43
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korghelper wrote:
I don't think that Korg should sell a 'blank' arranger, but I believe there's a VERY strong case for loading the arranger with different genre Banks, and having no ROM Style Group labels on the front panel.

It's a very hard sell to get a youngster (under 30!) interested in a keyboard that is mostly loaded to the gills with polkas, waltzes, bigband and cha-chas! Yes, there are some very contemporary styles in there too, but you lose the sale the minute the kid accidentally (or deliberately!) tries out one of these hokey banks.

I believe that arrangers will sell better to young players if the banks only contain modern styles. The salesman can easily point out that, if they WANT older style banks, they are easily loaded in. But don't rub their noses in it! Styles and sets that leverage the arpeggiator feature, some built-in loops already set sliced and tempo-locked, multipads with all kinds of electronica effects. What modern musician wouldn't go for that?

But the minute he sees stuff even his grandparents don't listen to (remember, most grandparents grew up in the 60's and even 70's, nowadays!) he's off to look at the latest workstation, loaded to the max with beats and sounds straight off the charts, even though they COULD do equally hokey music if their programmers were as suicidal as arranger programmers are!

There's nothing wrong with arrangers for making modern music as long as there are at least some arpeggiation and loop tools included. But one bank of polkas and they won't even bother trying.

I feel that stores need the opportunity to load in what they think the customer wants. I would bet the majority of browsers in a store are on the younger side. So load up the arranger with the latest, freshest stuff, and if the salesman sees an older customer, go over and say 'Hold on while I load in the Classic Styles' and totally change the 'ROM' (although that's not what it is!). Alternatively, have TWO arrangers in stock, load one with the modern stuff, the other with the oldies. Both customers walk away thinking 'Wow! This thing is designed for ME!'.

Rather than the current system, where both customers, if they accidentally wander into the wrong Banks, end up going 'Yikes! This is terrible!'

I bring to your attention the little Rapman arranger that sold like hotcakes to the kids, precisely because it concentrated on modern sounds and styles, and didn't alienate young buyers with banks of polkas and bigband. Korg already make the hardware, but shoot themselves in the foot trying to sell it loaded with content that alienates BOTH age groups (I've certainly heard enough comments on here about content that older users would never use!).

But now that ROM is a thing of the past, perhaps it's time Korg (and the rest) start realizing how much of a sales killer those older styles are in a store, when they can be easily added later...


A round of applause for the best post I’ve seen on this forum. You took the words right out of my mouth and made it sound better than I could ever. I’m with you one million percent.
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duby2
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Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 1076
Location: USA Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:01 pm    Post subject: old Reply with quote

Korghelper

99.8 % right ,, but i like to know the age of the people that buy a keyboards that cost $4000.00 and up ... when I was in my 30s , I did not have free money like that ,,, now days I have the money ,, so are most of the people buying keyboard that cost a arm and leg old and that why korg just fills the up the keyboard with classic styles ??

In my state PA..I know of just 3 people that have pa4x ,, and all of us are over 65 or more ... just wondering ...
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BillTracy



Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korghelper wrote:


It's a very hard sell to get a youngster (under 30!) interested in a keyboard that is mostly loaded to the gills with polkas, waltzes, bigband and cha-chas! Yes, there are some very contemporary styles in there too, but you lose the sale the minute the kid accidentally (or deliberately!) tries out one of these hokey banks.

But the minute he sees stuff even his grandparents don't listen to (remember, most grandparents grew up in the 60's and even 70's, nowadays!) he's off to look at the latest workstation, loaded to the max with beats and sounds straight off the charts, even though they COULD do equally hokey music if their programmers were as suicidal as arranger programmers are!



Very good post. That is a benefit that I hadn't thought of but a great idea.
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Cathy



Joined: 26 Aug 2019
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies and the opinions. My opinion is still
for an arranger that gives the buyer the option of using
the limited memory space with things that appeal to the buyer
rather than trying to satisfy everyone generically. As this topic
shows, we don’t always agree with what we want or need. We paid
a lot of money so to me it should be our decision. Just me!
Glad that we can delete those in rom, I thought rom was fixed and now
I know better.
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Cathy



Joined: 26 Aug 2019
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="BillTracy"]I believe the OP is referring to having the arranger come with just the operating system and being able to download (from Korg) only the sounds and styles you need. Presumably, the benefit would be additional available memory for the user.[/quote]

Thank you for understanding.
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