Korg Forums

[Cathy]

[quote="Korghelper"]I don't think that Korg should sell a 'blank' arranger, but I believe there's a VERY strong case for loading the arranger with different genre Banks, and having no ROM Style Group labels on the front panel.

It's a very hard sell to get a youngster (under 30!) interested in a keyboard that is mostly loaded to the gills with polkas, waltzes, bigband and cha-chas! Yes, there are some very contemporary styles in there too, but you lose the sale the minute the kid accidentally (or deliberately!) tries out one of these hokey banks.

I believe that arrangers will sell better to young players if the banks only contain modern styles. The salesman can easily point out that, if they WANT older style banks, they are easily loaded in. But don't rub their noses in it! Styles and sets that leverage the arpeggiator feature, some built-in loops already set sliced and tempo-locked, multipads with all kinds of electronica effects. What modern musician wouldn't go for that?

But the minute he sees stuff even his grandparents don't listen to (remember, most grandparents grew up in the 60's and even 70's, nowadays!) he's off to look at the latest workstation, loaded to the max with beats and sounds straight off the charts, even though they COULD do equally hokey music if their programmers were as suicidal as arranger programmers are!

There's nothing wrong with arrangers for making modern music as long as there are at least some arpeggiation and loop tools included. But one bank of polkas and they won't even bother trying.

I feel that stores need the opportunity to load in what they think the customer wants. I would bet the majority of browsers in a store are on the younger side. So load up the arranger with the latest, freshest stuff, and if the salesman sees an older customer, go over and say 'Hold on while I load in the Classic Styles' and totally change the 'ROM' (although that's not what it is!). Alternatively, have TWO arrangers in stock, load one with the modern stuff, the other with the oldies. Both customers walk away thinking 'Wow! This thing is designed for ME!'.

Rather than the current system, where both customers, if they accidentally wander into the wrong Banks, end up going 'Yikes! This is terrible!'

I bring to your attention the little Rapman arranger that sold like hotcakes to the kids, precisely because it concentrated on modern sounds and styles, and didn't alienate young buyers with banks of polkas and bigband. Korg already make the hardware, but shoot themselves in the foot trying to sell it loaded with content that alienates BOTH age groups (I've certainly heard enough comments on here about content that older users would never use!).

But now that ROM is a thing of the past, perhaps it's time Korg (and the rest) start realizing how much of a sales killer those older styles are in a store, when they can be easily added later...[/quote]


Exactly!

[Cathy]

I can remember my sampler days, at some of the larger music stores they had a kiosk loaded with samples you could d/l on the spot. You as the customer had the option of buying what you wanted and needed rather than paying for sounds that you’d never use.

Imagine that you’re in your favorite music store where you’re going to buy that new Arranger or rompler and once you’ve picked out that very large investment (for a lot of us anyway) and YOU have the option of cherry picking those styles you as the consumer wants! The arranger’s memory now has room for killer guitars or that killer accordion, whatever you decide!
I might be wrong but I think sales would reflect choice.

So what happened to samplers? One day someone we’ll muse about arrangers.

[karmathanever]

[Cathy]

[quote="karmathanever"][quote]Imagine that you’re in your favorite music store where you’re going to buy that new Arranger or rompler and once you’ve picked out that very large investment (for a lot of us anyway) and YOU have the option of cherry picking those styles you as the consumer wants! The arranger’s memory now has room for killer guitars or that killer accordion, whatever you decide! [/quote]
That's a very specific request - I cannot imagine ever doing that when I can buy a PA4X (for example) with 1200+ high quality professionally produced styles that I can take home, audition and keep/destroy whatever I want - with full style memory access. I think one would be in that shop for many many hours (days even) auditioning and selecting suitable styles.

Can't ever see that being a plus for any keyboard vendor - would be a bit like buying a MIDI controller with RAM

But hey, just my thoughts - that's all.

[/quote]


Those sampler kiosk were very popular but went out as sampler use waned.
With the advent of the internet I think there are huge possibilities for companies to exploit under utilized demographics like younger musicians who might not seem like a viable candidate for arranger type keyboards. I’ve bought and sold several and not one has been to someone in my age group (over 50) most were Hispanics.
I appreciate the fact that there must be a lot of people who want calypsos, cha-chas and such but after 40 years of playing in clubs not once has anyone asked. Different venues I’m guessing...

[Korghelper]

I’m not suggesting that you buy your styles a la mode, I still think that purchasing the arranger gives you access to the entire factory content. I’m simply talking about how to interest young players playing them for the first time in a store...

I’m sorry but I honestly think a panel with the words Ballroom, Trad, and Movie & Show is going to send the average young player scurrying off back to the workstations faster than a face full of mace!

When you were kids (you were, weren’t you?!), would you honestly have been interested in a keyboard labeled with 19th century dance styles? We often talk about how hard it is to get youngsters away from workstations and pure synths. I think not rubbing their noses in music styles they haven’t the slightest interest in is a good start...

[BR]

[Biggles]

Cathy

Where is the market for Arrangers?

And specifically Korg Arrangers

1) Young, to get going playing a keyboard and for this Yamaha have all the bases covered. To some degree the Styles do not matter as the keyboard is simply a stepping stone.

2) Mature, pretty sure that the vast and I do mean vast majority of Arranger owners and specifically PA4X/1000/700 are mature adults with disposable income. Hence for the majority and certainly that includes this old guy our musical taste are eclectic and very, very diverse and certainly not modern pap pop, dance or rap.

Yes there are Style packs available to cover all genres but do remember, Styles are not fixed, they can be customised and they can be created from scratch.

Now the young, what are they going to use, simply a DAW and a MIDI keyboard controller with this cheap and cheerful approach they can and do make music.

Yes it would be nice if an Arranger was available with different Style packs that could be loaded but lets remember that it is a global market and not one based out of the USA and Korg have to cater for a worldwide market hence to have Style packs specific to age ranges would complicate a global market very significantly. Not sure Korg Italy could manage such a diverse call upon their resources.
_________________
Biggles
Lancashire, UK

[AntonySharmman]

[rikkisbears]

Maybe we need 2 arrangers, one for the oldies and one for the younger people. Or a keyboard with some basic styles and a library where we can purchase extra styles, the type we want.

Is it really ok to have just just say 500 onboard styles when possibly only 10 to 20% are used because the rest don’t suit the type of music one plays. Yet we grin and bear it.

There’s a heap of styles I’ll never use, Dance, a lot of the more modern rock, pop and ballads etc

The younger folk , I doubt would ever use the ballroom styles , the musical styles etc

Provided the keyboards are identical in sounds , functions etc how difficult could it be to actually find out what type of styles people actually using and give them type of styles they want.

It’s brilliant all the tools that are available and that we can create our own, unfortunately not everyone has the time or ability.

Personally I sometimes struggle to find an onboard that suits the music I like to play. Came to the realisation recently it’s the korg operating system ie style editing etc that I love, not necessarily the styles themselves. So for me it’s a case of converting the odd one across from my psr. A fairly simple broadway piano type ballad I converted recently, has worked on a heap of songs that I was struggling finding a style to suit. Not saying there was nothing on board that might have worked, just not what I wanted.

So that is one thing I do luv about the korg, the style editing and creation functions.
_________________
best wishes
Rikki

HOBBYIST

PA5X 88 note
Wavesart CFX 9ft Grand Piano 🥰
Wavesart Japanese Grand Piano

Yamaha PSR SX900

Band in a Box 2023

[Fransman]

Maybe it will be possible one day to have an internet connection directly from your keyboard to Korg's impressive style library.
And then, just like in Spotify, create your own favorites lists of styles. Some of them downloaded to your keyboard. Some just pointed to and available when you're online.

The Songbook would still be the tool to add your favorite KBD sets, style settings, FX etcetera.

When you think of it, this modern approach would open up a world of opportunities.

EDIT: by creating unique style identifiers it would also solve the problem of Songbook Entries pointing to the wrong styles after a keyboard change (like I had from PA3X to PA4X and earlier instrument changes).
_________________
Musical grtz, Frans

Play in style.

[pa4x_user]

[Biggles]

[Cathy]

Once again thanks for the replies and the civility of responses. We all draw our opinions from our own experiences and our expectations, my background is progressive rock.
Most of the styles on my 4X are useless to me but the ones I can use are killer! The quality of the sounds is also fantastic! Those Salamander pianos are beautiful!

One asset I’ve started exploring are the Songbooks, how cool!

Anyway I still wish for a blank arranger but you never know, I might join a progressive rock band that requires a Mazurka! Lol!

Have a safe and musical Labor Day!

[Biggles]

[Cathy]