 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
iowagold
Approved Merchant
Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 323
Location: in an alternate time line
|
 Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:08 pm Post subject: amen kevin! |
 |
|
amen kevin!
time will tell when the final versions of the os is out...
I wish they would do a selectable action unit...
and 88 key synth action!!
now that would pry my tight hands open!!
LOL!!
_________________
my site klimaco.net
Current Gear: korg m3 expanded radias firewire 88 key Radias r on mat, korg radias r on mat on 61 key bed, Korg triton rack w 96mb ram scsi port, 5) korg RADIAS-R on big rack, korg kaossilator pro plus, 6) roland integra7, 4 Roland sc55, 2 roland sb55, 5) fostex 2016, behringer fx2000, 2) roland a800 pro, 2) roland a88 and 2) a49, roland juno, Doepfer MAQ 16/3, 2 Manikin Electronic Schrittmacher, most soft synths. cake walk all old and new versions.
3 schecter guitars, 3 elevenracks, most mxr effects, 2 zoom r24, avid pro tools 11.
MRT midi Breath Controller. 6 studio rooms. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Why to you want 88 note synth action?
I have to admit - the 76 note version looks stunning - but - because of V-Piano on board, I'd have to go for the 88 weighted-action version.
It always amazed me tha Korg - from the T1 through to the OASYS 88 and Kronos 88, have made 88 note version of their worstations that look as good - if not better - than their smaller counterparts (at least in my opinion the T1 and O1W 88 note version looked amazing) while the OAYSYS and Kronos 88s retain the same form factor as their smaller siblings.
But for Yamaha and Roland, their 88 note versions look pretty horrible - big chunky things that retain none of the visual elegance of their 61 and 73/76 note versions.
So to me the 76 note version of the Fantom looks amazing - but as said - because of the presence of V-Piano and mooted updates, I feel I'd have to go for the 88 note version, despite the loss of elegance.
Surely 76 notes of synth action is sufficient for all purposes other than pianistic requirements?? Will that not pry your hands open?
I can't believe I'm saying this - I thought I was done with workstations - but - I'm now planning to get one of these! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kevin Nolan wrote: | | So to me the 76 note version of the Fantom looks amazing - but as said - because of the presence of V-Piano and mooted updates, I feel I'd have to go for the 88 note version, despite the loss of elegance. |
Maybe you have another 88 around you could MIDI up to the Fantom to trigger its V-Pianos? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | | Kevin Nolan wrote: | | So to me the 76 note version of the Fantom looks amazing - but as said - because of the presence of V-Piano and mooted updates, I feel I'd have to go for the 88 note version, despite the loss of elegance. |
Maybe you have another 88 around you could MIDI up to the Fantom to trigger its V-Pianos? |
I do - I've a K2500XS and OASYS 88 - both amazing actions but - whether this is sounding 'anal' or not - I can't quite 'get into' a piano sound if it hasn't been developed along with the keyboard it's attached to.
And - if I buy something as all encompassing as a Fantom - I want to sit at it - when exploiting it - it'll never be quite the same sitting at an OASYS 88 and having to reach across, or up, to get at it. I know myself well enough - when I want a keyboard to sit at - it must be sitting horizontal at standard piano height - that's how I have a few of my important keyboard set out - the OASYS 88, and a CS80 - it's on its own, nothing above it.
If I were to go for this device it'd be to exploit it in full, so it'd have to be the 88 note version, perhaps as the centre piece of a new setup or simply on it's own perhaps with computer.
So although the Montage 7 and Fantom 7 look the business - alas for me it'd have to be the 88 note versions - most especially for a the Fantom because V-piano is so bloody exciting! I'm sure there are a dozen ways to skin this cat - but I don't see the point of buying this Fantom if you can't play the V-piano, sitting at it with an 88 note weighted action, in a pianistic mode. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | | Sharp wrote: |
There's no way on earth I would buy a workstation for 3+ Grand that didn't even have a sampler.
|
I actually haven't seen them call it a workstation. They seem to call it a synthesizer.
Look at the manuals list at https://www.roland.com/us/support/owners_manuals/
the manuals for the old Fantoms are all listed as "Fantom Workstation" while the manuals for this new one are listed as "Fantom Synthesizer." I also did not find any occurrence of the word "workstation" on the new Fantom's product page.
But it's semantics... either it does what you need or it doesn't. |
Well, their new Fantom Facebook page is topped with this really hilarious statement:
"Roland has redefined the workstation - releasing the best workstation ever built. This group is for users to learn and share more about this amazing instrument."
In fact they have massively downgraded what a 2019/20 workstation could and should be:
- covering all sound areas well (Fantom: no B3 engine, no great EP section, no FM, lots of high wquality acoustic instruments missing)
- offering midi AND audio sequencing with proper edit functions (the Fantom has no audio sequiencing at all, and it seems so far all the Fantom can do with midi notes is delete them)
- sample RAM and/or SSD streaming for instrument sample libraries import and creation (The Fantom has none of it)
Instead the amount of recyled sounds, in an engine which makes no significant audible difference, is massive, while the amount of available patch banks for scenes (like combis on a Kronos) is tiny.
The above sentence in the Fantom Facebook group makes me laugh my socks off...
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2152
Location: Glasgow, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jimknopf wrote: | Well, their new Fantom Facebook page is topped with this really hilarious statement:
"Roland has redefined the workstation - releasing the best workstation ever built. This group is for users to learn and share more about this amazing instrument."
...
The above sentence in the Fantom Facebook group makes me laugh my socks off... |
Just FYI - it's not Roland's FB page; it's mine. And I am the author of the hilarious statement! It's just my opinion, (as your post above is yours), and is in no way presented as being 'right' or indeed a 'fact'. Until recently I thought the OASYS was the best workstation ever built, but having used the Fantom 8 for over a month now, I have changed my mind.
_________________
Plugged in: Fantom 8, Jupiter-X, Jupiter 80, System-8, JD-XA, V-Synth GTv2, FA-06, SE-02, JU-06A, TR-09, VT-4, Go:Livecast, Rubix44, Shure SM7b, Push2, Ableton 11 Suite, Sibelius, KRK Rokit 5,
Last edited by cello on Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
billysynth
Junior Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well done Cello.
Do you know if the V Piano is the same, or has the same models as the original V Piano? Is it exactly the same software wise? I seem to recall being able to create silver strings wrapped in copper but i don't see that capability in the manual.
I wonder if they will expand on the V Piano to the level of PianoTech or there abouts?
Vas |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2152
Location: Glasgow, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Duplicate post
_________________
Plugged in: Fantom 8, Jupiter-X, Jupiter 80, System-8, JD-XA, V-Synth GTv2, FA-06, SE-02, JU-06A, TR-09, VT-4, Go:Livecast, Rubix44, Shure SM7b, Push2, Ableton 11 Suite, Sibelius, KRK Rokit 5,
Last edited by cello on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cello
Platinum Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 2152
Location: Glasgow, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| billysynth wrote: | … Do you know if the V Piano is the same, or has the same models as the original V Piano? Is it exactly the same software wise? I seem to recall being able to create silver strings wrapped in copper but i don't see that capability in the manual.
I wonder if they will expand on the V Piano to the level of PianoTech or there abouts?
Vas |
I believe it's a reduced set of parameters for Fantom V-Piano - as you say, those string variables are not available. I'm not aware of any plans for Roland to change this.
But nonetheless it sounds amazing!
_________________
Plugged in: Fantom 8, Jupiter-X, Jupiter 80, System-8, JD-XA, V-Synth GTv2, FA-06, SE-02, JU-06A, TR-09, VT-4, Go:Livecast, Rubix44, Shure SM7b, Push2, Ableton 11 Suite, Sibelius, KRK Rokit 5, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iowagold
Approved Merchant
Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 323
Location: in an alternate time line
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:44 am Post subject: why 88 key synth action |
|
|
why 88 key synth action
for the splits... and zone action of a good work station..
I have a good midi roland 88 key hammer action controller.
and a88 pro...
I wish they would do this new unit as a rack version!!
that would be cool to have the fantom and a matching rack unit!!
more scene action!!
just thinking live it would work better for me....
for me hammer action is over rated in a controller....
now a responsive synth action with velocity and real sensitive adjustiable on that...
that is of interest to me!!
I have 9 controllers here in the studio...
most of them are ok.....
they all have different action!!
the only thing on the fantom that does it for me...
is it is a hardware unit!!
soooo...
zero latency... soft synths are only as good as the computer...
right now the computers still are low grade...
some are ok..
but they still do not have what hardware will do..
if the fantom is at least as good as the integra7..
it will be a win for roland!!
_________________
my site klimaco.net
Current Gear: korg m3 expanded radias firewire 88 key Radias r on mat, korg radias r on mat on 61 key bed, Korg triton rack w 96mb ram scsi port, 5) korg RADIAS-R on big rack, korg kaossilator pro plus, 6) roland integra7, 4 Roland sc55, 2 roland sb55, 5) fostex 2016, behringer fx2000, 2) roland a800 pro, 2) roland a88 and 2) a49, roland juno, Doepfer MAQ 16/3, 2 Manikin Electronic Schrittmacher, most soft synths. cake walk all old and new versions.
3 schecter guitars, 3 elevenracks, most mxr effects, 2 zoom r24, avid pro tools 11.
MRT midi Breath Controller. 6 studio rooms. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimknopf
Platinum Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Posts: 3374
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cello wrote: | | jimknopf wrote: | Well, their new Fantom Facebook page is topped with this really hilarious statement:
"Roland has redefined the workstation - releasing the best workstation ever built. This group is for users to learn and share more about this amazing instrument."
...
The above sentence in the Fantom Facebook group makes me laugh my socks off... |
Just FYI - it's not Roland's FB page; it's mine. And I am the author of the hilarious statement! It's just my opinion, (as your post above is yours), and is in no way presented as being 'right' or indeed a 'fact'. Until recently I thought the OASYS was the best workstation ever built, but having used the Fantom 8 for over a month now, I have changed my mind. |
Thanks for the correction: I obviously thought that was an offical Roland page.
I still think the statement is hilarious, but that does not imply the same stetement about the person who wrote it. In fact I have seen thoughtful posts from you over the years here, cello.
In this case, I can't even regard the new Roland Fantom as proper 2019 workstation, in the sense described, at all, not even remotely - even if I like the new controller surface and some of the sounds.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kevin Nolan
Approved Merchant
Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2524
Location: Dublin, Ireland
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jimknopf wrote: | | cello wrote: | | jimknopf wrote: | Well, their new Fantom Facebook page is topped with this really hilarious statement:
"Roland has redefined the workstation - releasing the best workstation ever built. This group is for users to learn and share more about this amazing instrument."
...
The above sentence in the Fantom Facebook group makes me laugh my socks off... |
Just FYI - it's not Roland's FB page; it's mine. And I am the author of the hilarious statement! It's just my opinion, (as your post above is yours), and is in no way presented as being 'right' or indeed a 'fact'. Until recently I thought the OASYS was the best workstation ever built, but having used the Fantom 8 for over a month now, I have changed my mind. |
Thanks for the correction: I obviously thought that was an offical Roland page.
I still think the statement is hilarious, but that does not imply the same stetement about the person who wrote it. In fact I have seen thoughtful posts from you over the years here, cello.
In this case, I can't even regard the new Roland Fantom as proper 2019 workstation, in the sense described, at all, not even remotely - even if I like the new controller surface and some of the sounds. |
To me it's a _very_ clever development of the Workstation; and more than worthy of that categorization. I'd go as far as to say that it points the way forward for the workstation - and Korg should sit up and take notice:
- Extensive sound engines, pianos, effects, polyphony, I/O, user interface, .... - it ticks all the boxes there
- Getting rid of modes. Like with the Montage - a very clever idea. Gone is the annoyance of bringing programs into Combis and loosing the effects. It's definitely a 21st century improvement in that regard - and I say 21st century because it needs the DSP clout to cope with that change
- Still 16 track MIDI - but - with very tight integration into Logic Pro (the most popular DAW) and as clever - tight integration with Mainstage.
- Ableton like 'clips' and TR-808 style pattern sequencing - again the word to use - clever - and of course - current / in vogue with so much electronic music composition
- USB- MIDI connectivity to either play the Fantom using multiple controllers, or to control multiple external devices such as Boutique synths from the Fantom - smart!
- Competes admirably with the Nord Stage
- CV/Gate control of analog / modular synths
- V Piano !
... and on and on
No workstation today needs to, or should, try to be an all-in-one box in the traditional workstation way that can only ever compete poorly with computer DAW recording solutions. Rather, it needs to offer sublime features in many different composition and live performance ways relevant to todays music and musicians - and that's precisely what it does. Amazing sounds and synth engines, character and style, live-performance capabilities at the highest level, enabling modern-day composing and performance requirements.
Fantom had navigated many, many winding and twisted paths and in my opinion, has done that in a myriad of ways that don't feel like a set of compromises but as a set of new and exciting features and capabilities. I feel quite similar about this as I did when the JD800 came out.
It may not offer as may synth engines as the Kronos, or as many piano models as the Nord Stage (for now) - but - it has navigated a maze of potential pitfalls, avoiding them all, while offering an amazing sounding instrument that oozes quality and character.
Even as a synth - this thing is serious. Roland have a winner on their hands in my opinion - you can already tell from the positive reactions across the industry and across the planet - very positive interest in this device. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BillTracy
Joined: 18 Oct 2017
Posts: 43
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kevin Nolan wrote: |
To me it's a _very_ clever development of the Workstation; and more than worthy of that categorization. I'd go as far as to say that it points the way forward for the workstation - and Korg should sit up and take notice:
|
Very good post and well made arguments.
_________________
PA900 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KJandKT
Junior Member
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 90
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Honestly incredible looking device and definitely something to finally compete with boards like Kronos. From reading on forums it looks like they will eventually be adding new engines, having full piano roll capability and incorporating audio tracks...and it sounds incredible already. Really well done Roland!
God bless |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
billysynth
Junior Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well written Kevin.
I will eventually, in the not too distant future, be buying this. I just want to see an update or two. It sounds magnificent as is actually.
Yes, well done Roland!
Vas. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
