 |
Korg Forums
A forum for Korg product users and musicians around the world.
Moderated Independently.
Owned by Irish Acts Recording Studio & hosted by KORG USA
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
|
 Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:30 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Scott wrote: | | Bachus wrote: | I am considering going for an integra 7
Or even an FA07..
Both should be able to recreate the sound of the Jupiter 80 to some extent.. |
| karmathanever wrote: | | Integra-7 is superb and yes, has many J80 sounds and features |
The SuperNatural Synth of the Jupiter 80/50 is also in the Integra and the FA and should sound very close, probably identical, except that the effects architecture in the Jupiter is far more flexible... you can put multiple effects on a single tone, in series or parallel. Integra (and FA) only let you assign one insert effect per sound (though you can split/layer more tones simultaneously than you can on the Jupiters).
The SuperNatural Acoustic tones of the Jupiter 80 are all in the Integra (again with the same effects limitations described above), and in fact, the Integra has many more of them than the Jupiter 80 has (along with a whole bunch of PCM tones that are not in the Jupiter 80).
The FA has only a very small subset of the SuperNatural Acoustic tones of the Jupiter 80 or Integra, and a subset of the PCM tones of the Integra. |
The thing is, in a few words..
A) the integra is build, just like most instruments these days around the idea of a straight forward mixer... this makes it verry flexxible
B) while the jupiter 80 is build around 4 keyboard parts, with layers, and a strcture of direct access.. this makes it less, flexible but a lot more accessible and controllable..
I think A is perfect for studio use..
Where B has some advantages to the player..in a live setting..
In the end the Jupiter 80 comes with 512 performances, and 3000+ live sets
Where the integra has 64 studio sets... (that replaces both performnces and live sets, as there is no live set layer)
On top of that offcourse the direct controll on the integra is near non excistant.
but yes, the integra has way more sounds? but my good old XV5080 brings me quite far..
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1199
Location: UK (Dorset)
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
https://youtu.be/6KtL7kR4jik
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer : |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1199
Location: UK (Dorset)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| D575 wrote: | | https://www.roland.com/us/promos/jupiter-x_story/?fbclid=IwAR2Hq1uOzEHex7mNJ6Hm3qvpxTMZT_ORqy4lPuBjwgc1OFWg-0w-qd5TGN0 |
Interesting interview, thanks.
I hope Roland will do a similar interview about the new Fantom, it would clarify a lot and dispel rumors which are not true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There's one thing Roland's CEO said which I don't understand: Roland does not intend to 'chase a ghost' by recreating analog synths of the past but instead focuses on the future.
I understand that and respect that position.
But why does he make that statement when Roland DID go running after ghosts of the past trying to capture them in a digital box?
If, ten years ago, Roland had taken a look at the market, noticing how for instance 808's were selling at several thousands of dollars, and they would have decided to create the 'Roland Classics' brand in order to release synths of the past starting with the 808, I'm sure their accountant never would have needed to write red marks.
I'm convinced that even if Roland would never be able to match Behringer's price point, such a reissue would have been a best-seller at double the Behringer price.
I think Roland missed a business opportunity, a very big one.
Being in business is all about making money, and they just ignored the gold nuggets in their back garden.
And in the meantime Behringer runs with the gold and cannot keep up with the incredible demand for their RD8 and now the TD3. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jan1 wrote: | | I'm convinced that even if Roland would never be able to match Behringer's price point, such a reissue would have been a best-seller at double the Behringer price. |
I guess the risk is that anyone can do a direct copy (once the tech is old enough to not be protected), so eventually a Behringer does come out with the same think a lot cheaper, and demand for your "original" would drop, whereas if you do something "different," you still own the market for that thing, even if that thing still includes some take on the original as well.
It's not directly equivalent because of the form factors and Moog being a more boutique brand than Roland, but I suspect that interest in the "new Minimoog" went way down when Behringer announced their Model D. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jan1
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 765
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | | Jan1 wrote: | | I'm convinced that even if Roland would never be able to match Behringer's price point, such a reissue would have been a best-seller at double the Behringer price. |
I guess the risk is that anyone can do a direct copy (once the tech is old enough to not be protected), so eventually a Behringer does come out with the same think a lot cheaper, and demand for your "original" would drop, whereas if you do something "different," you still own the market for that thing, even if that thing still includes some take on the original as well.
It's not directly equivalent because of the form factors and Moog being a more boutique brand than Roland, but I suspect that interest in the "new Minimoog" went way down when Behringer announced their Model D. |
There's no doubt in my mind that the Behringer price point of vintage recreations plays a very significant part in Behringer's success, but in my previous post I was hypothesizing about what Roland could have done ten years ago and the financial consequences for the company.
The demand for vintage equipment is not a recent thing, and if Roland had come up with reissues at a time when Behringer was not around on the synth market they could have made a lot of money.
Right now, if I were in the position of Roland/Yamaha/KORG, I would not waste time and effort trying to compete with Behringer, I think it is too late for that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Narioso
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jan1 wrote: |
The demand for vintage equipment is not a recent thing, and if Roland had come up with reissues at a time when Behringer was not around on the synth market they could have made a lot of money.
|
And it seems Roland has been into layering sounds since the D-50 in the 80's - not as new as CEO in Jupiter X interview said.
I think the Boutique series were meant to meet the demand of retro stuff. Apart from D-05 they were severly dismantled on storage to make own patches - and menu diving or use computer to make patches, which makes hardware obsolete anyway.
I have failed to find a single Roland that is truly made fun to do own patches - still so. The simplest things like preview of location you are to overwrite - is missing. Simplified a lot in my view - not having to go through all patches first and make excel spreadsheet what you are willing to loose and can overwrite.
And not enough storage to make intermediate stores to go in different directions - on most synths.
As and old fan of Howard Jones - I looked at a review kind of he did where he looked at Jupiter-80 - and it was all about layering too. And you could tell he was not impressed like he loved the Jupiter 8.
I was looking at a system-8 now and talked to Roland support about it - why the SD card restores did not have bank load from saved backups. That was one way I saw to overcome the 64 memory locations for each plugout - but they missed to implement this.
So again no Roland addition for me. JD Xa and Jupiter X - same thing - no preview of locations to overwrite.
Nordlead - 1024 locations and preview before overwriting.
Deepmind - 1024 locations and preview before overwriting.
Prologue 500 locations, to some extent remedy missing preview with excellent sorting options. Korg CX-3 had preview - why not Kingkorg and Prologue too. To mention ones I owned. Prologue has preview of subtimbre - nice.
Kyra - preview of name you overwrite but not audible.
I do 20-30 saves an hour when I explore a synth - and don't want a spreadsheet hanging to see which programs I feel has no interest to me. It kind of kills the reason for hardware with knobs and all if computer is needed anyway.
I want to visit new territory making sounds - not layering as primary tweaking - as Roland CEO seems to have for his research. Then it's pretty much rompler banks. So Jupiter X can layer 4 parts - big deal, Nordlead had that since 15 years
I love piano and slow swell on choir behind - but that's pretty much it.
But having as fun with Prologue and with Nordlead - really nice synth to work with and many clever ways to create new timbres.
_________________
MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Narioso wrote: | | Then it's pretty much rompler banks. |
XV and RD banks are. But not the Juno, SH, JX, Jupiter banks.
But to your other point, about just how fun and enjoyable synths are to work with, that's become my bigger priority, rather than sounds/features. If the fun isn't there, the rest of it doesn't matter. All the synths are capable of making good and interesting sounds, but they're not all easy and fun to work with. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Narioso
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | | Narioso wrote: | | Then it's pretty much rompler banks. |
XV and RD banks are. But not the Juno, SH, JX, Jupiter banks.
But to your other point, about just how fun and enjoyable synths are to work with, that's become my bigger priority, rather than sounds/features. If the fun isn't there, the rest of it doesn't matter. All the synths are capable of making good and interesting sounds, but they're not all easy and fun to work with. |
Roland has all the knobs in place for those tweakable patches.
So modifying and overwrite same location - is pretty easy.
But as soon as you want to keep current you started on - you have to know which location you want to overwrite next.
Nordlead make this simple
- press store once - and you shift from listening to edit buffer and to that location.
- browse up/down - and you listen to patches there until you find one that is uninteresting to use as is, or even start from.
- press store again
- done
As far as I can tell - it's about swapping edit buffer away and listen to what each locations has - then before writing, you swap edit buffer back and write that to chosen location.
How hard is this?
And it's incredibly simplified process to find where to store what you modified.
I just don't get - especially Korg that had it on CX-3 v2 - why did they loose that?
I haven't owned the workstations how that is, just the synths.
Once I have a patch that is interesting - I modify maybe modulations or envelopes etc. If I find something I like I store that away and continue maybe swapping waveforms on that and work on that a bit - and store away if I like it. This ends up having dozens of intermediate stores where I will take up and go in another direction later.
Nordlead A1 get this - they have a Like button and 50 volatile locations to store intermediate stuff.
And if you feel like going random changes - you have that too. All over all parameters or just chosen ones.
These guys at Clavia really have worked with making sounds - that is clear.
I like both Kingkorg and Prologue for the thinking behind it providing great variations in filters and oscillators.
I sometimes miss having separate envelope for each oscillator - but doing the same thing in two timbres - in same program - you can do that too.
So I like what Korg is doing - providing options.
Will there be a firmware update on Prologue that allow preview as well - one can always hope. It would simplify quite a bit for me - soon running out of the 250 locations that was Init Program.
I removed the Combined category and use that for stuff that I can overwrite. So those obsolete get Combined and can be sorted to quickly see which location I will write next time to.
How to navigate menues in Prologue was great improvment to Kingkorg.
_________________
MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott
Platinum Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 1015
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Narioso wrote: | | I do 20-30 saves an hour when I explore a synth - and don't want a spreadsheet hanging to see which programs I feel has no interest to me. It kind of kills the reason for hardware with knobs and all if computer is needed anyway. |
If a board has a computer-based librarian, it's pretty quick and painless to move, say, 50 programs you have no interest in to the last 50 locations, and INIT them (or put the same "filler" patch in all of them)... then you know those are all available for re-write. It's a one-time brief nuisance, not enough to rule out a synth you might otherwise love. (If there's no librarian, it may or may not be so easy, depending on the on-board interface of the board.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Narioso
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Scott wrote: | | Narioso wrote: | | I do 20-30 saves an hour when I explore a synth - and don't want a spreadsheet hanging to see which programs I feel has no interest to me. It kind of kills the reason for hardware with knobs and all if computer is needed anyway. |
If a board has a computer-based librarian, it's pretty quick and painless to move, say, 50 programs you have no interest in to the last 50 locations, and INIT them (or put the same "filler" patch in all of them)... then you know those are all available for re-write. It's a one-time brief nuisance, not enough to rule out a synth you might otherwise love. (If there's no librarian, it may or may not be so easy, depending on the on-board interface of the board.) |
It's not a bad idea to use librarian to sort the keepers, if made a Like on them - in the case of Prologue. Thank you.
I've been doing librarian more with Prologue than when I had Kingkorg, due to user oscillators etc. Really cool features. By the way those having Prologue should update the free oscillators in Prologue forum post - quite neat new features in them v1.5 now.
I had so many issues with Korg midi driver, especially with Kingkorg - back and forth uninstalling and worked at times better class compliant than driver. So avoided other than doing backups now and then.
I even had to uninstall Kingkorg librarian and drivers and all - to get Prologue access at all with these new drivers. Still had strange messages starting Prologue librarian that I did not have Korg driver installed and insisted to install - and then prologue midi ports disappeared.
Not dedicating midi ports - but go automatic worked better. Don't touch now it unless it stops working.
_________________
MIDI gear: Sequential REV2.16, Prologue-8, Hammond XK-3C, Kawai MP7SE piano, Nord Lead 2X, Roland D-05 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
D575
Platinum Member
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 1199
Location: UK (Dorset)
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
https://youtu.be/pfWRiVb070Y
_________________
Korg PA5X-76 : Yamaha Montage M8x : Roland Jupiter 80 : Waldorf STVC : Roland Integra 7 : Waldorf Streichfett : Focal Trio6 ST6 : Studio Outboards/RME Audio Interface/A&H SQ Mixer : |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Broadwave
Platinum Member
Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 1118
Location: Manchester UK
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've decided to go for the Fantom over the Jupiter. Testing one out today.
BUT... If the VA Oscillators are anything like the SuperNatural ones on the JP80/50, Integra or Gaia, I'll be giving the Fantom a very wide berth.
_________________
Synth DIY Projects |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bachus
Platinum Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 3127
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Broadwave wrote: | I've decided to go for the Fantom over the Jupiter. Testing one out today.
BUT... If the VA Oscillators are anything like the SuperNatural ones on the JP80/50, Integra or Gaia, I'll be giving the Fantom a very wide berth. |
The VA oscilator in the Fantom is exactly the same as in the jupiter X and XM, as well as in the mc 707.. the fantom also has a true analogue filter..
General concensus is that the VA in the xen-core engine is another step up from the super natural synth engine in my jupiter 80.. after playtesting i seem to agree...
_________________
Korg Kronos 2/88 , Genos, Mainstage3 +VSTsu, ipad pro, GSi Gemini, Roland Integra 7, Jupiter Xm, Yamaha motif XS rack, Ketron SD90.
www.keyszone.boards.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
