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Will buying the Kronos be good for me?
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KK
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Joined: 13 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrys,

Not sure you already tried one. I strongly recommend you do at a local music store, at least to feel the keys and "fingers-to-sounds connection", just like if you would shop for an acoustic instrument. If you already did and enjoyed the Kronos feel and sounds, then for sure it can be a great instrument.

About a year ago, a friend of mine asked me about the Kronos, so just for fun I recorded this video showing the different sound engines and what it can do. I'm mainly perform in real-time with minimum background tracks unless necessary, and I think the K2 fits my needs excellently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5xF3yl5V3o
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Emrys



Joined: 15 Dec 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome video KK. Thanks!

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the sounds from K2.
As said earlier, I have loved Korg sounds for 25 years!
I think with the sounds that I already have as mentioned in my OP to go with K2 library, I would have an incredible sound library that would fulfill my wants and needs for a lifetime.
The only way that the K2 would disappoint is if I could not record those awesome sound libraries into my Logic Pro or any other DAW!
Yes, I do not want or need the Kronos for recording purposes, however, that does not matter to me as I cannot get Korg sounds any where else, so the K2 fills the bill.
Unless someone tells me that I CANNOT record the K2 sounds with Logic Pro, I think having the K2 would be incredible in my studio!!!!!
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KK
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that the Kronos is also a complete sampler, so you can also go the other way and play whatever you want with it. To purchase a K2 some years ago, I had to first sell several of my old keyboards to get some funds. But before I did, I made sure to sample all their best sounds, then I transferred them into the Kronos, so now I have everything in my K2 and the old keyboard favorites sound even better with the K2 top-quality effects. Cool
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Lightbringer
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrys wrote:
Awesome video KK. Thanks!

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the sounds from K2.
As said earlier, I have loved Korg sounds for 25 years!
I think with the sounds that I already have as mentioned in my OP to go with K2 library, I would have an incredible sound library that would fulfill my wants and needs for a lifetime.
The only way that the K2 would disappoint is if I could not record those awesome sound libraries into my Logic Pro or any other DAW!
Yes, I do not want or need the Kronos for recording purposes, however, that does not matter to me as I cannot get Korg sounds any where else, so the K2 fills the bill.
Unless someone tells me that I CANNOT record the K2 sounds with Logic Pro, I think having the K2 would be incredible in my studio!!!!!


It sounds like you already know exactly why you want it, and that you know it will deliver what you want. I'd say go for it then!

Don't worry, you'll be able to record it. There are a variety of ways to get sound from the Kronos into a DAW such as Logic. Personally I just use the analog main outs into my other soundcard/mixer - the reason is that my main audio interface has a lot more channels than the K, so I don't really feel the need to temporarily switch over to the Kronos USB audio driver just to record it. It works fine. It's not digital but there is really no quality/fidelity loss that I can detect from this 1st generation recording. That said, you have options including using K as a USB audio interface, going to another audio interface over SPDIF, even recording to a USB stick and the importing the recorded WAV file into Logic.

@KK that's a great video - excellent sounds, and it has a very intimate feel. What on earth screen is that in your AL-1 demo starting ~1:26? On the Kronos LCD display? I have never seen that screen before.


Last edited by Lightbringer on Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Emrys



Joined: 15 Dec 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
Remember that the Kronos is also a complete sampler, so you can also go the other way and play whatever you want with it. To purchase a K2 some years ago, I had to first sell several of my old keyboards to get some funds. But before I did, I made sure to sample all their best sounds, then I transferred them into the Kronos, so now I have everything in my K2 and the old keyboard favorites sound even better with the K2 top-quality effects. Cool


To be completely honest, I have no idea about sampling, although I am sure it would be awesome for me to dig in and learn about!!!!
Thanks for the information, much appreciated!
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ChrisDuncan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightbringer wrote:
Don't worry, you'll be able to record it. There are a variety of ways to get sound from the Kronos into a DAW such as Logic. Personally I just use the analog main outs into my other soundcard/mixer - the reason is that my main audio interface has a lot more channels than the K, so I don't really feel the need to temporarily switch over to the Kronos USB audio driver just to record it. It works fine. It's not digital but there is really no quality/fidelity loss that I can detect from this 1st generation recording. That said, you have options including using K as a USB audio interface, going to another audio interface over SPDIF, even recording to a USB stick and the importing the recorded WAV file into Logic.

And at the risk of adding the obvious, I typically first record MIDI from the Kronos, just in case there's a note or two I flub in an otherwise good take. Easy to clean things up that way. Then I just playback the MIDI pointed at the Kronos and, like you, record the audio from the analog main outs.

I don't go anywhere near USB interfaces when I can get the job done through traditional MIDI as it's so much less vulnerable to the whims of your computer.

Also totally +10 on KK's video. The synth sound at 5:10 reminds me of the first Animusic DVD, if anyone every saw that. And love the buildup to Hoedown.
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Emrys



Joined: 15 Dec 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all are way ahead of me when it comes to recording midi, sampling etc!
I am a 60’s, 70’s rocker that is just trying to get a handle on all of this.
I have an 828es MOTU thunderbolt interface, with a Mac 64GB Hard Drive with 2TBSSD storage.
So, anyway, I am still on the bottom end of my learning curve, so any information that you think might help would be appreciated 😉
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KK
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightbringer wrote:
@KK that's a great video - excellent sounds, and it has a very intimate feel. What on earth screen is that in your AL-1 demo starting ~1:26? On the Kronos LCD display? I have never seen that screen before.

Oh it's what you see when you are in Quick Layer or Quick Split mode. These fun features have been added in the latest two Kronos OS. If you didn't update yet or maybe tried these features yet, please do and it's totally free ! Cool

I didn't have a combi or program for what I'm playing in that part of the video, so I simply used the Quick Split mode to have the synth on the left side and a string sound on the right. Glad you liked it and take care ! Wink
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KK
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisDuncan wrote:
Also totally +10 on KK's video. The synth sound at 5:10 reminds me of the first Animusic DVD, if anyone every saw that. And love the buildup to Hoedown.

Hi Chris, glad you liked my little video. About Animusic, I didn't know there were DVDs but I remember seeing one of their songs, with a machine doing drums and percs. Cool
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrys

You pay premium for a keyboard, because Kronos have quite capable sequencer with audio interface.

Because you have already MOTU interface, Logic Pro, and no needs to record in the field or perform live, those features are not much use to you. You are better off with Logic Pro to act as a sequencer.

With Logic you gonna be far more productive and creative, and let’s not forget that you own other NI keyboard and libraries.

You asked in the first post - How can I justify buying a Kronos?

You would pay for audio interface and sequencer, that is not much use to you.

Second factor, as you might know Kronos software ( Kronos Editor, Plug-in, and KARMA software ) for quite long time has not been updated ( macOS ), and it looks like has been abandoned. Because you are Mac and Logic user, these packages might be quite crucial, so it’s fair to conclude that in current situation Macs and Kronos don’t go well.

How can I justify buying a Kronos?

You would spend money on a keyborad that comes with a software that is obsolete or abandoned.

Third factor, polyphony.
If you think that Kronos can substitute a few keyboards, or create complex textures you gonna be disappointed.
Kronos is simply underpowered. One Obsolete Atom CPU has to take the burden of sound engine, DSP and KARMA engine. A flaw in design, instead BALANCE and ADEQUACY, there are FEATURES FEATURES more FEATURES, let’s make the BEAST. On a paper it looks impressive, but in practice, Half of your time will be spend on tweaking programs how to preserve polyphony.
In fact Korg was so ignorant and arrogant that they shipped some COMBIS that steeling 100 notes !!! Instead show us how it should be done they show us how to run out of polyphony, Instead upgrade the CPU in Kronos 2 and SE, they pump it out with libraries that are even more demanding on polyphony.

The input lag in GUI, the sluggishness is another story …

I have like you Mac, Logic, MOTU and RME interface. I use digital TOSLING connection and I must admit is very solid and stable. The problems ? Not many, occasional stuck notes when recording KARMA in Logic, but that’s another chapter …

Myself, I do not regret buying Kronos, but if I have to make decision today I would not pay even a half price. I find kronos attractive due to facts like: all presets can be wiped out, have DIGITAL IN/OUT, love RH3 action, and HD-1 engine. In general is a hate/love affair.

My personal recommendation is wait for NAMM 2020, see if Korg updates kronos.
If not, and you do not perform live, there is no point of buying Korg Kronos.
Go for a multi keybord setup, the best solution for you is to go for specialized instruments that fill the requirements only needed in your setup.
for example , Prophet X, or Waldorf Quantum ( great for movies, TV shows that you mentioned, leaves Kronos in the dust in sonic qualities ).
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alland
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Will buying the Kronos be good for me? Reply with quote

Emrys wrote:
I have a home studio with Logic Pro, Motu 828es Audio Interface, with sounds from Omnisphere, Komplete 12 Ultimate, East West Soundcloud.
I have a Komplete 61 key keyboard.
How can I justify buying a Kronos?


You probably have justified this for yourself and Kronos is on its way or in your hands as Christmas present Smile
But the feeling is similar here - if I already have this and that gear, VST or software piece - why should I get another one...
Follow the path : I see it, I want it, I justify it, I buy it, sometimes I regret it, I use it, I give away it (to get next version of it)

- Kronos maybe does not trump Omnisphere and Komplete Ultimate in sound variety but it sounds very good and I add it often to my mix, including drums and efx onboard
- You probably will not use Kronos SEQ, since you have all that in your computer + studio (bit greedy about Motu 828 Smile )
- KARMA things I use often to color my sound or just playing around
- with sequencer (I use Ableton) I do not use Korg VST but just connect Kronos Midi (or USB midi) and build special Combi (or song, if want to use Kronos in SEQ mode) in Kronos for each project where each midi channel has its sound.

Have Kronos in your gear and use it both standalone or complimentary to your home studio that just gets better.
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Lightbringer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poseidon wrote:

Go for a multi keybord setup, the best solution for you is to go for specialized instruments that fill the requirements only needed in your setup.
for example , Prophet X, or Waldorf Quantum ( great for movies, TV shows that you mentioned, leaves Kronos in the dust in sonic qualities ).


I'm having a hard time seeing where you're coming from. Emrys indicated this potential purchase is because of a love for the sounds of Korg and the K2. You spent a paragraph complaining about polyphony. And your recommendation is to buy boards with less polyphony, for more money, that will not have Korg sounds? (I'm not begrudging the Waldorf or Sequential Circuits boards, here, I'm sure they are excellent, but just don't seem in line with what Emrys is after).

I do agree about the 32-bit VST editor software. Can't think of a good reason that Korg shouldn't have updated that by now given that Kronos is a current/active offering and 64-bit has been the standard on the desktop for several years now. The plugin doesn't do a lot of heavy lifting - it doesn't generate audio. It just sends small MIDI sysex messages back and forth to the Kronos. So I'm not sure how much 64-bit would actually benefit it. Maybe that's why they don't feel it's worth the cost? But still, it's weird it's the only 32 bit plugin I ever use these days. You'd think they'd do it just so that people don't perceive it as outdated... Does it actually cause problems for you? I don't use it that much.

As an aside, if you have an iPad, a great way to add some Waldorf wavetable sounds to your Kronos is get the Waldorf Nave app for iPad (~$20 USD). Plug your iPad into your Kronos USB B port via the camera connection kit (now that Kronos audio interface is no longer redundant with your PC/Mac audio interface, eh? Smile ). Map some of the EXT Kronos controllers to it via MIDI learn to control it from the K. Add Kronos FX to the incoming sound if you like, and/or send Karma or RPPR patterns out to it, mix it with Kronos sounds. There are a lot of iPad synth apps you can use with the Kronos this way. Qui Robinez made a nice video tutorial on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FufDzLQym7A
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Emrys



Joined: 15 Dec 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many GREAT thoughts that you all have put out there, and I have read and thought about them all very intently!

A lot of the technical jargon bandied about in previous post gets me lost as I don't understand most of it. For example 'polyphony,' I have no idea what that means.

The fact is that I already do have all I need to create any kind of music that I would want.

So, do I NEED Kronos? Nope, I don't need it to fulfill any need that I have music-wise.

However, the Kronos would be an incredible 'add on' piece to my musical library!

So, I think for nostalgic reasons from remembering all those hours playing the O1/W and loving the Korgs sounds and the sounds have only got better since then. I really WANT a Kronos.

However going back to Greg's point about waiting at least untill NAMM which is only next month, I really cannot 'justify' buying one until I see what comes out of NAMM.

It IS about Korgs sounds, as I have looked at the Yamaha Motif and the Roland Integra and neither one of them wows me like Korg sounds and instruments.

So, I will just hang tight and wait till NAMM.

You all have been awesome, and I great thank each one of you for taking the time to help me out!
Thanks a bunch!
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Emrys



Joined: 15 Dec 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read a post Greg wrote in the Forum 'Is Kronos still king' and he feels that there is nothing new concerning the Kronois coming up at NAMM.
So that would take me back to where I started from lol
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Lightbringer
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrys wrote:
For example 'polyphony,' I have no idea what that means.


Polyphony is the number of simultaneous notes (or more properly, voices) your synth can produce before it hits the limit of the CPU. For example if your synth had 3 voice polyphony, and you played C-E-G, it would be fine. If you tried to add a 4th note (say the major 7th, a B note) it wouldn't be able to play all 4 notes at once. Most synths handle this by stealing notes in some given order. For example, when you play the B note, it would stop sound the first note you played (C) to be able to play that 4th B note. Note that you don't even necessarily still need to have your finger on the keys for the note to be sounding - it might still be sustaining.

With Kronos the polyphony varies by the synth engine. For example, the PolySix six supports up to 180 voices of polyphony. The most intensive synth engine, the STR-1, only supports up to 40. Note that these have kind of a cumulative effect so if you're playing a combi that contains an STR-1 synth and a PolySix synth layered, you won't get a full 40 voices out of STR-1, because some of the processor is also being used by PolySix.

The Kronos manages polyphony for you. In a lot of cases, if you even hit this limit, you won't even notice it stealing notes - there will be too much going on, and it does it very well. However, it could become an issue in particularly big complex patches with many layers, or if you're using it to do a full song with a bunch of parts in the sequencer. It's something to be aware of. Depending on your use case, it may never be a problem for you. The way I use the Kronos, it's never been a problem for me so far.

No one knows what Korg might unveil at NAMM. If you would be devestated if you didn't get the latest and greatest board (assuming they do announce a K3 or whatever) it's probably worth waiting 3 weeks to find out. But again, that probably puts you 6 months from actually getting your hands on it. That has to be your call. I don't benefit whether you buy a Kronos or not. Smile
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