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PA4X SET List
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inox



Joined: 02 Feb 2020
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Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:12 pm    Post subject: PA4X SET List Reply with quote

How the SET List works

The SET List logic is not good. Only settings from the Songbook can be added to the SET List, and song settings cannot be saved directly to the SET List. Thus, all songs are duplicated, Songbook + SET List.
Another mistake is that you cannot save your settings to any location (1-10) in the SET List, just push it back and forth, but that's not enough!
If I want to save the settings of a song on one page (1-10 banks) in SET LIst, eg: 1.Bank intro, 2.Bank Vers1, 3.Bank Refrain1 etc.,
then I can save the corresponding text (txt) of the song separately for Vers1, Refrain1, Vers2, Refrain2 etc.
In this way, each song is placed on a different page, and there is no need to scroll through the text (txt). However, this would require that the page (s) also have a unique name.
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pawlikp100
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like you were or still are a user of the Yamaha.
Kork does it have such feauture like Yamaha has I mean registration memory.

You cannot build a scenario for your song using songbook because when you switch between different SongBook this operation is not smooth.
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inox



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pawlikp100 wrote:
It looks like you were or still are a user of the Yamaha.
Kork does it have such feauture like Yamaha has I mean registration memory.

You cannot build a scenario for your song using songbook because when you switch between different SongBook this operation is not smooth.



Indeed, this is true!
I have experienced that in the SET List, when the Bank (1-10) is switched, the PAD that is currently running stops playing.
It would be good to change that.

Yes, under PA4X, a Genos is "watching" Rolling Eyes
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duby2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject: set list Reply with quote

have you seen this set list and how it works .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lovFBbQUxOU
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inox



Joined: 02 Feb 2020
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Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: set list Reply with quote

duby2 wrote:
have you seen this set list and how it works .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lovFBbQUxOU



SET List problem
1 You can only copy entries to the SET List, only from the Songbook, and not directly to the SET List. This will double the entries.
If you delete a Songbook entry, it will also be deleted from the SET List.
2 Can only be saved to consecutive locations, ie 1-2-3-4-etc
3 You cannot save to the second or third page until the first page of the List (12 entries) has been completed.
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B.Safe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: set list Reply with quote

inox wrote:
duby2 wrote:
have you seen this set list and how it works .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lovFBbQUxOU



SET List problem
1 You can only copy entries to the SET List, only from the Songbook, and not directly to the SET List. This will double the entries.
If you delete a Songbook entry, it will also be deleted from the SET List.
2 Can only be saved to consecutive locations, ie 1-2-3-4-etc
3 You cannot save to the second or third page until the first page of the List (12 entries) has been completed.

This is not a problem.
On the contrary, it is much more powerful than a static registration system.
This is made possible because the songbook is a real database.
The songbook entries are not doubled, the set lists are only different views (ordered selections) of the same items in the database.
In other words, a set list is like an index in a book and you can define as many as you want with different criteria.
And of course if you delete an entry in the database, the indexes are automatically updated.
I don't see much point in leaving holes in the list, but if you still want to do it, you can insert dummy entries from the Songbook to skip (placeholder) certain positions.

By the way, in the video, we also understand why Korg chose
    -to always select Kb set #1 when calling a songbook entry
    -to suppress the call of a style when choosing a Kb set
That's what we could do with the performances of the previous PA series, but in a more powerful and flexible way.
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inox



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: set list Reply with quote

[quote="B.Safe"][quote="inox"][quote="duby2"]have you seen this set list and how it works .....


I don't want to leave holes in the SET List.
On one page, I want to save posts for 1 song,
Intro, verse 1, refrain, verse 2, refrain, etc. saved for each one,
the correct txt so you don't have to scroll through the text.
If 8 entries are enough for this, 4 more will be left,
and I can't go to the next page to post another song
Yes, here is a solution to the "dummy" entry.
However, it will be better to have a new Set List for each song
I create it with the song name.
In this case I always use only the first page of the SET List,
so I can find songs in the List more easily.
As far as I know, an infinite number of SET Lists can be created .....?

Thanks for the explanation and the tip!
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:53 pm    Post subject: KbdSet # 1 when selecting an Sb-entry Reply with quote

B.Safe wrote:
... in the video, we also understand why Korg chose
    -to always select Kb set #1 when calling a songbook entry
    -to suppress the call of a style when choosing a Kb set
. That's what we could do with the performances of the previous PA series, but in a more powerful and flexible way.


Genereally KbdSet#1 is NONSENSE when selecting an Sb-entry with a running style. There is even a function for this - but unfortunately it does not work properly with the songbook.
*
Why Korg chose KbdSet # 1 when selecting an Sb-entry was well published even without video and also how to suppress the choice of a style.

This video of Paul shows that it makes no sense to switch to the Kbd-Set # 1, when changing the running style of the next style if the StyleToKbd-Set has been set to Off. On SetList 2 he had KbdSet #1 set tos "Pia + Flute", on SetList4 " to 3x Strings Octaves", on SetList5 to "Beau Strings" and on SetList6 "Orch Tutti".

Of course Paul with his demo of sb-list-function did not play continuous melodies and continuous transitions when changing sb-entry, because the automatically forced change of current KbdSets to KbdSet#1 would otherwise have caused ugly interruptions and rumbling of the realtime tracks (Upper1-3, Lower, Effects).

In the case of a running style - unlike stopped styles or songs - the setting of StyleToKbd-Set = OFF should under no circumstances force this automatic change to KbdSet#1, but should prevent it as realized in StylePlay-mode (or predecessors did with SingleTouch) to enable smooth and uninterrupted transitions when changing sb-entry.

Function "StyleToKbdSet" with the songbook without OS-Update is unsuitable for uninterrupted playing with styles if you want to play melodies and notes that are continuous during the transition. This was solved well with the previous models (Pa4x / 800/500).

With the Pa700 / 1000 / 4x this function is poorly resolved and unusable, far away to be used for performances in a powerful and flexible way as we had with predecessors!

PS: Automatic change to KbdSet # 1 is available anyway with StyleToKbdSet = ON, so the function is redundant if doing the same in position = OFF (and therefore faulty for use to enable smooth and uninterrupted transitions when changing sb-entry).
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inox



Joined: 02 Feb 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:52 pm    Post subject: SET List, Songbook Reply with quote

While playing live, the Kbd Set works fine.
However:
In the Songbook, when you switch from one record to another record, or in the SET List, when switching banks, the Kbd Set change is delayed by 1 beat.
This can be felt very well when switching using the Fill section. (that is, the bank to be called starts at 1 fill )
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B.Safe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: set list Reply with quote

inox wrote:
I don't want to leave holes in the SET List.
On one page, I want to save posts for 1 song,
Intro, verse 1, refrain, verse 2, refrain, etc. saved for each one,
the correct txt so you don't have to scroll through the text.
If 8 entries are enough for this, 4 more will be left,
and I can't go to the next page to post another song
Yes, here is a solution to the "dummy" entry...

The 4 that are left at the end of a page are holes in the list as well Smile
You can easily check this by choosing list instead of tile in the set list display preferences.
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B.Safe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: KbdSet # 1 when selecting an Sb-entry Reply with quote

siebenhirter wrote:
B.Safe wrote:
... in the video, we also understand why Korg chose
    -to always select Kb set #1 when calling a songbook entry
    -to suppress the call of a style when choosing a Kb set
. That's what we could do with the performances of the previous PA series, but in a more powerful and flexible way.


Genereally KbdSet#1 is NONSENSE when selecting an Sb-entry with a running style. There is even a function for this - but unfortunately it does not work properly with the songbook.
*
Why Korg chose KbdSet # 1 when selecting an Sb-entry was well published even without video and also how to suppress the choice of a style.

This video of Paul shows that it makes no sense to switch to the Kbd-Set # 1, when changing the running style of the next style if the StyleToKbd-Set has been set to Off. On SetList 2 he had KbdSet #1 set tos "Pia + Flute", on SetList4 " to 3x Strings Octaves", on SetList5 to "Beau Strings" and on SetList6 "Orch Tutti".

Of course Paul with his demo of sb-list-function did not play continuous melodies and continuous transitions when changing sb-entry, because the automatically forced change of current KbdSets to KbdSet#1 would otherwise have caused ugly interruptions and rumbling of the realtime tracks (Upper1-3, Lower, Effects).

In the case of a running style - unlike stopped styles or songs - the setting of StyleToKbd-Set = OFF should under no circumstances force this automatic change to KbdSet#1, but should prevent it as realized in StylePlay-mode (or predecessors did with SingleTouch) to enable smooth and uninterrupted transitions when changing sb-entry.

Function "StyleToKbdSet" with the songbook without OS-Update is unsuitable for uninterrupted playing with styles if you want to play melodies and notes that are continuous during the transition. This was solved well with the previous models (Pa4x / 800/500).

With the Pa700 / 1000 / 4x this function is poorly resolved and unusable, far away to be used for performances in a powerful and flexible way as we had with predecessors!

PS: Automatic change to KbdSet # 1 is available anyway with StyleToKbdSet = ON, so the function is redundant if doing the same in position = OFF (and therefore faulty for use to enable smooth and uninterrupted transitions when changing sb-entry).

Yes, I know, we don't agree on these things at all.
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inox



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: set list Reply with quote

[quote="B.Safe"]
inox wrote:
I don't want to leave holes in the SET List.

"The 4 that are left at the end of a page are holes in the list as well Smile
You can easily check this by choosing list instead of tile in the set list display preferences.
"


inox:

When using the method I use (which is the group view) there is no point in switching to the List view.
So the "imaginary holes" are not disturbing either. : D
The advantage of group view is that it is easier
the target-Bank selection. No wrong call.
I use only the first page of the SET List,
the name of the SET List is the same as the title of the saved song.
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korg1
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still don't understand why you need a whole set list for one song .

First you have to create songbook entries in songbook
for every song you want to play,
then create setlists (playlists) of the songs you want to perform .
You can save each song to start with any of the intros or fills,and with the sound you want to play.
No reason having the same song 8times in the setlist
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siebenhirter
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject: SetList function for different stylePerformances Reply with quote

korg1 wrote:
... Still don't understand why you need a whole set list for one song ... No reason having the same song 8 times in the setlist..


It always depends on the intended way of working and how variable you want to make a somewhat sophisticated structured song

Due to the fixed assignment of track parameters of a single style no variable style performances of a song are allowed. But with SetList this is possible within a song and with same style (style-sequence) but with different style-performances, each one continuing (or starting) with individual memorized style-elements and each one with its own KbdSets (if desired, else locked if desired).

As amount auf setlist-entries is not limited like sb-entries, that is a method to use a style of a song with different style performances. This is the most important advantage of the set list, because a style himself is fixed to the track-parameters of a single style-performance. With setList you can compensate for this inadequacy.

Next advantage of Set-List is the direct access via the KbdLibrary-buttons for changing within the different style-performances.

Unfortunately, the disadvantage remains - every change of the set list also causes Kbd-Set # 1 to be loaded, but this often is not desirable in this work-around but rather annoying - that is because with running styles smooth transitions due to interruptions in the kbdsets (kbd sounds) are not possible.
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korg1
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are mistaken here.
Even if you want to work this way,it should be wiser to have 3-4songbook entries with names like ''stayin alive 1'' ,''stayin alive 2'' ''stayin alive 3 '' for example and have them all in the same page of a setlist.

Also, the only limitation for each style is that you can use only 8tracks plus 4 pads ,plus the 4tracks for upper sounds you play .

Otherwise,you can create 6cv's per Style Variation,so i can't imagine what would be more sophisticated than that.
Could you please give us an example ?
The only other limitation is that you have to use the same program sound per track for all cv's in a variation,which i could understand ,but there are solutions while editing a style so you can fit most of the data you want .
For example,
I want to use more than 8 program sounds at the same time in a style,at the same Variation,ok ?

solutions:
1)create pads with the phrases that use the sounds you want ,and use them through pads.
2)Add the extra tracks to the existing tracks,as long as they match.
You can try to use the filters to archieve the best results,it works nice for creating FX sounds ,etc,but it also requires a lot of editing,especially when both sounds play at the same time....filters have to be programed to change a lot.
3)chose sounds that could work with existing and extra tracks you want to add .
4)Don't be afraid to use intros or endings for edding more parts of a song if they need to be specific.
5)You can create your own program sounds for each song,that they could hold more than one sound,or splitted in case you have to use totally different sounds.

As for KbdSets ,you can create as many families of 4 you like saved in different songbook entries.

Otherwise,working the setlists like you work now,
will cost you a lot of scrolling till you find the right setlistsong you search for.
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