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Limiting chord progression while making styles

 
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shawnstanley123



Joined: 28 Jul 2018
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:36 pm    Post subject: Limiting chord progression while making styles Reply with quote
Hi.....
Is there anyway that I can limit a chord progression within an octave while creating style. Like all the chords that I play in a style must be triggered within an octave especially with pads and strings
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karmathanever
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 10399
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not sure but this may help:-
Page 288 in the PA4X OS 3.1 User Manual (related to trigger settings)

Cheers

Pete Very Happy
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Limiting chord progression while making styles Reply with quote
shawnstanley123 wrote:
... limit a chord progression within an octave while creating style .. must be triggered within an octave especially with pads and strings ...


If you want Accompaniment Sounds should sound better in their natural range, then for each track of each Style Element use checkbox SOUNDRANGE of StyleRecord > ElementTrackControls > Range page.

So you allow KeyRange of these sounds are taken into account, to be automatically transposed if track exceeds the lower or upper KeyRange (unchecked SoundRange only will play real notes of the tracks).
*
If pitch of the recognized chord is too high, sometimes the style pattern may be transposed to an area that also is high an sounds unnatural. For this the WRAP-AROUND point is used. This is the highest grade for the accompanying track and when the accompaniment pattern reaches the wrap-around, the chord is output one octave lower.
*
So if accompaniment pattern exceeds its range or goes over the wrap-around point, it can be transposed to fall in the best range.
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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karmathanever
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Sieben - I was desperately trying to remember the WRAP-AROUND setting...

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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Wrap-Around / KeyRange-Soundrange Reply with quote
karmathanever wrote:
... trying to remember the WRAP-AROUND setting...


Wrap-around is as a very effective feature of the style player and is used far too little. This is probably due to the fact that the function is not well described in the manuals and is therefore not well understood.

In cases of bad used KeyRange / SoundRange, wrap-around also has no effect, which is perhaps why it is not dealt with.

A small example (FactoryStyle 8-BeatStandard1) of how you can use wrap-around in combination with KeyRange / Sound Range for different behavior of the bass track without editing the style, because these parameters are saved only in the StylePerformances:

If looking in sound-edit the bass track of FactoryPreset 8-BeatStandard1 contains only events with pitch C2 and its KeyRange is limited from E1 to Dis2.

If the check box SOUNDRANGE for the bass track is checked in the style controls, the bass track - depending on the recognized chord - can only output the following notes:
C2, Cis2, D2, Dis2, E1, F1, Fis1, G1, Gis1, A, Bes1, B1.

That is because limit of KeyRange was edited/limited from E1 to Dis2.

If you want to hear bass tones in other octaves, you MUST NOT CHECK the checkbox for SOUNDRANGE of the BASS TRACK and you will get bass in octaves as set with Wrap-Around:

With wrap-around value 12 the following notes are now output for the bass track - depending on the recognized chord:
C2, Cis2, D2, Dis2, E2, F2, Fis2, G2, Gis2, A2, Bes2, B2 (no wrapping)
With wrap-around value 11 the following notes are output for the bass track - depending on the recognized chord:
C2, Cis2, D2, Dis2, E2, F2, Fis2, G2, Gis2, A2, Bes2,B1
With wrap-around value 07 the following notes are output for the bass track - depending on the recognized chord:
C2, Cis2, D2, Dis2, E2, F2, Fis2, G1, Gis1, A1, Bes1, B1
With wrap-around value 01 the following notes are output for the bass track - depending on the recognized chord:
C2, Cis1, D1, Dis1, E1, F1, Fis1, G1, Gis1, A1, Bes1, B1

The output of Acc-Tracks chords are in exactly the same way with separately adjustable wrap-arounds per style track thanks to the StylePerformance parameters that can be set in the Style Controls.

I think it makes a difference whether and in which octave a chord or the bass is to hear and therefore it usually makes sense to use Wrap-Around and not to devalue by too narrow limitation in the SoundRanges / KeyRanges of styles where it is not necessary.
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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Korghelper
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There’s still a lot further to go in arranger design than simple wrap around systems before parts get played in anything close to how real players play, IMHO.

Voice leading is integral to most playing, and it has nothing to do with range (until you get to the extremes, at least!). To be honest, very little progress has been made in 30 years or more of arranger design. Wrap around rules were on some of the first arrangers, and have made little change since then.

Perhaps it’s time a bit more emphasis was placed on the notes that the part plays than the sound the part uses? Completely idiomatic playing with authentic voice leading on a pretty average sound is generally more convincing than an utterly convincing sound playing parts voiced in ways no real player would play...

If we are looking to the future of arrangers, TBH improving voice leading algorithms would move the whole genre forward faster than round robins and other sample tricks!
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siebenhirter
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Joined: 13 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:34 pm    Post subject: KeyRange/SoundRange & WrapAround with Style-Tracks Reply with quote
Korghelper wrote:
.. Voice leading is integral to most playing ... very little progress has been made in 30 years or more of arranger design. ...


It is also my opinion about missing progress of arranger design - development of StylePlay features would be welcome instead missing functions we already had in previous models, but simply were omitted in the subsequent model.

But OPs question was how to limit a chord progression within an octave while creating style with a Pa4x.

This fortunately with Pa-Arrangers of Korg can be done with SoundRange / KeyRange and Wrap-Around, but seems to be little published this excellent tool, which otherwise is hard to find to be parameterizable on other arranger keyboards.

Even if you call them "simple" systems - this are good, efficient tools, but you have to know how to use them.
Hope my infos about how to use parameters of existing SoundRange / Wrap-Around would be useful for OP - that is my concern!
*
Korghelper wrote:
.. If we are looking to the future of arrangers, TBH improving voice leading algorithms would move the whole genre forward faster than round robins and other sample tricks!


Theortical talking about voice leading algorithms, round robins and sample tricks may be interesting in a separate thread, but seems to be not effective in this case, where an attempt is made to provide assistance in order to use an existing feature satisfactorily for OPs needs.
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- siebenhirter, austria -

Interesting facts about styles and stylePlayer functions can be found at http: www.elmarherz.de
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