Kronos Combis vs Modx [Montage] Performances

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:35 pm

Fly by? I don't quite understand how you think that - this is a discussion thread, no?

Perhaps it's my ignorance, as I haven't touched or worked with a MODX, but in reading your description and the information on the Yamaha site it indicates that their "Performances" can be comprised of 1 - 16 Parts. I fail to understand how a Performance based on 1 Part is any different than a Kronos Program?

Hence my inquiry, as it would seem to me that their 2,000+ Performances would equate to the 2,000+ Kronos Programs and Combinations.

If this is objectionable to you then please feel free to ignore. My intent was not to start a debate or argument.

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:06 pm

Greg. Enjoy the MODX. From my limited time with Montage the MODX should be a REALLY good purchase

It does have significant limitations though but you can't moan at the MODX price point. I personally don't think the number of MODX performances is "staggering" as I found myself wanting more.

The Yamaha one-level filing system is however much less complicated - e.g. there is other stuff in Kronos that has to be loaded correctly for everything to work such as drum tracks and KGE's and wave sequences - keeping up with all that is painful and is probably why I haven't really touched Kronos in the last 12 months or so.

Is Montage / MODX better than Kronos, well erm NO it isn't - just different.

I hate the sequencer on Kronos and will never work with it. Yamaha abandoned theirs in favour of a sketch sequencer - I mean really! The Kronos fonts were designed for the OASYS which has a lower dpi but the screen was larger so it didn't matter - same concept in the M3. I don't need glasses and I can't even read the text under some of the virtual knobs on Kronos - it is embarrassing (Korg could easily sort that out but can't be bothered) Yamaha screen is better but not much. MODX DAW integration was a potential benefit but...

I think I'm going to take up running or something, much less problematic and far better for my mental state

edit: hi tunaman, Greg likes his new keyboard, and quite rightly so but I agree with you on the number programs etc. we need to congratulate him on over 9,000 posts - that must take some doing.

and it is Friday - yea!

tunaman · Post by **tunaman** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:20 am

Thanks peas - glad he’s happy, and TGIF! As they say, variety is the spice of life! Well that, and Captain Morgan!

Track 7 · Post by **Track 7** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:48 pm

Bump . . .

How are you guys feeling now after having had your Yamahas for a few months?

On a whim yesterday, for the first time in years, I visited a nearby Guitar Center, where I briefly checked out a MODX8. Pristine sounds but kind of lightweight and unimpressive build quality -- lots of plastic.

However, based on its sounds, I'm now curious about the more solid Montage, with its metal casing and other premium features. The store did not have one. I'm just going by internet reading.

While it looks to be not quite an all-in-one machine like the Kronos, I am attracted to the simplicity of its two engines instead of nine as well as to some of its more realistic sounds, especially guitars.

Also, have you guys tried the latest version of its onboard sequencer (OS 3.5, I think)? Does it have event editing? Copy and paste? And can a final MIDI song be mixed and exported as an audio file? Does it have global effects like the Kronos, such as EQ and compression of the final stereo mix?

The owner's manual is not clear to me about this. It seems the MODX and Montage rely more on a computer for certain production features like exporting audio.

In short, it looks like a Montage would be more of a supplement to a Kronos than a replacement, but I'm still curious just how close it comes to being a standalone production tool if someone wanted to use it that way. Obviously no multi audio tracks, but maybe at least a MIDI mixdown .WAV?

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:19 pm

Track 7 wrote:Bump . . .

How are you guys feeling now after having had your Yamahas for a few months?

On a whim yesterday, for the first time in years, I visited a nearby Guitar Center, where I briefly checked out a MODX8. Pristine sounds but kind of lightweight and unimpressive build quality -- lots of plastic.

MODX8 is a solid key board. Not flimsy.

True, one should not drop it down 2 flights of stairs.

The relative light weight of MODX 8 compared to Montage 88, is a plus, IMO.

Track 7 · Post by **Track 7** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:38 pm

Roger on the weight. For occasionally needed portability, I'm thinking of getting rolling cases and/or a hand cart for my current rig (Kronos 73 + three-tier stand). If I were to get a Montage, it would be a 61.

In any case, at this point I'm more curious about the sequencer questions above if you have any insights or experience. Thanks!

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:48 pm

long story short, MODX/Montage has a pattern SEQ not a linear SEQ like kronos.

IOW, you can start a song, add sections using the Pattern SEQ. But for deeper edits and getting to a WAV, thats where Cubase is needed

There is much to like about MODX/Montgage. Not everything is a grand slam. for my $1900, MODX 8 is a winner.

Yamaha got that right.

FYI, I disliked the key bed on the MODX6/7. Not the same as the 88

Track 7 · Post by **Track 7** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:32 pm

Ah, thanks, no wonder the manual doesn't show much about the sequencer. Sounds like I might not get max use out of a Montage then. I was imagining more of a "second studio" to wander into that would also be standalone, if only with MIDI. Using Cubase for mixdowns would not be so bad, but as long as I have the Kronos, I'm not quite ready to return to DAW land.

GregC · Post by **GregC** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:37 pm

Track 7 wrote:Ah, thanks, no wonder the manual doesn't show much about the sequencer. .

Yamaha is different on manuals. when they did 2.5 for MODX, they enhanced the pattern SEQ.

So the original core manual says little about the pattern SEQ.

when you d/l 2.5, the enclosed 97 page manual about the improved Pattern SEQ tells the story.

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:54 pm

Yamaha sequencer is very poor. Even recording arps is a stab in the dark. The sequencer from the Motif was much better than nothing but they took that away... Don't get the Montage if you want to event edit. It isn't "in the machine" anymore!

Docflick · Post by **Docflick** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:44 pm

GregC wrote:
Yamaha is different on manuals.

LOL - yes, indeed, Yamaha is "different" with their manuals. One might say their manuals for current products are exceptionally unhelpful, perhaps even an industry-standard "worst in show."

This has not always been the case with Yamaha, though. The manual for the DX7, as I recall, actually presented fairly clear "this is how you do x" instructions. The manuals for the Motif and Montage, not so much.

davc · Post by **davc** » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:58 pm

also have a gen 1 Kronos 88 ... and a newer MODX61 ...

for me , most often the Combi/Perf patches show some of what can be done
within the keyboard ... I usually make my own Combi/Perf patches for my useage ... but I will find things that a particular factory Combi/Perf does that I want to figure out - how it's done ..!? then apply those findings to my own.

the total count of which has more Combi/Perf is fairly moot ...?! more coulc be considered better - if you really wanna go thru all of them , but most are categories of music I don't car about .!?

I do like the screen on the Yamaha ( easier for my older eyeballs ) ... and the ability to hack the usb output for a larger video screen ..!

they do sound much different .. as they should ... Yamaha sounds like Yamaha ... many older samples /patches are included ..

the Korg ' engines ' do have more unique personalities ... but they do compliment each other well ...

Liviou2004 · Post by **Liviou2004** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:15 am

Peas&Carrots wrote:Yamaha sequencer is very poor.

The Montage sequencer is not "very poor", it is as it is. It's a powerful pattern and motion sequencer, not a song sequencer.

Peas&Carrots wrote:The sequencer from the Motif was much better than nothing but they took that away... !

Of course it was : the Motif was a workstation. The Montage is not !

Many people complain and want the Montage to have a real sequencer as if it were a workstation. Montage/ModX are not a workstation.
Yamaha has never pretended the Montage is a worstation ! They've always introduced the Montage as a synthesizer.

If people want a workstation, well, perhaps they should buy a workstation !

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:08 pm

Livou2004 wrote:The Montage sequencer is not "very poor", it is as it is. It's a powerful pattern and motion sequencer, not a song sequencer.

it is powerful, you just can't edit midi notes from the keyboard so that is not good in my view (i.e. poor)

Livou2004 wrote:Montage/ModX are not a workstation.

Nope they definitely aren't. Yamaha tried that tack with their loyal customers - and then the fight started... There just aren't many workstations to choose from so looking elsewhere is not really an option esp if you want Yamaha. That's what annoyed people.

Everyone's view is different of course. When manufacturers take away perfectly useful features only to reintroduce them at a later date, I think they deserve both praise and criticism. Making something worse and then marketing the failure is not a good strategy. I like Montage, I just think Yamaha messed up! MODX is very good for the price.