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Problem with Combi Korg Kronos

 
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zibistanczyk



Joined: 03 Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:14 am    Post subject: Problem with Combi Korg Kronos Reply with quote

Hi,

I prepared combi with timbres for every single track
(1 - piano, 2 - organ, 3 - brass ... 10 - drums and so on) and saved as a user combi .
I connected Kronos to the Ableton 11 as a external instruments and assigned tracks from Kronos to the midi tracks in Ableton. Everything is OK, except situation when from time to time kronos changes timbre e.g. on track 10 from Drums to Organ.

Do you have any idea what is the reason?
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Greetings!

Zibi

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Korg Kronos 88, Zoom LiveTrak 12, Behringer FCB 1010, EVE Audio 205, Klark Teknik DW 20BR, Ableton Live 11
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alland
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 577
Location: Estonia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem with Combi Korg Kronos Reply with quote

zibistanczyk wrote:
....except situation when from time to time kronos changes timbre e.g. on track 10 from Drums to Organ.

Please describe little bit more in detail
1) What you are trying to to/achieve? Record Kronos midi to Ableton or play back from Ableton to Kronos or both?
2) What exactly is _problematic_ in situation when "Kronos changes timbre"?
3) What do you mean by "Kronos changes timbre"? How this happens? Did Kronos get some midi signal from Ableton and changes timbre? Or you select different combi or modify existing combi and timbre gets changed? Or what?
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zibistanczyk



Joined: 03 Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem with Combi Korg Kronos Reply with quote

Hi alland,

alland wrote:
zibistanczyk wrote:
....except situation when from time to time kronos changes timbre e.g. on track 10 from Drums to Organ.

Please describe little bit more in detail
1) What you are trying to to/achieve? Record Kronos midi to Ableton or play back from Ableton to Kronos or both?
2) What exactly is _problematic_ in situation when "Kronos changes timbre"?
3) What do you mean by "Kronos changes timbre"? How this happens? Did Kronos get some midi signal from Ableton and changes timbre? Or you select different combi or modify existing combi and timbre gets changed? Or what?


Ref.1 I preparing midi tracks in Ableton. After that I copy to the Kronos sequencer and use as arragement for melodic line of song. This is normal way to make a song cover form me. I do not send or use any MIDI Ctrl parrameters from Ableton. I need only MIDI tracks which I play on Kronos and recorded in Ableton. As I mentioned, I use Kronos as a external instrument in Ableton. So I use timbres from Kronos.

Ref.2 The main problem is I have to back to timbre which I set before for some track in Kronos when Kronos change the timbre without my ingerence. I start to play my song from Ableton and I supprise that organ timbre on track 6 in Kronos is no organ but e.g. trumpet and drums on track 10 is no drums but e.g. piano. I have to change once again the timbres which where changed by Kronos to correct timbres. The situation is repeated many times during preparing the song.

Ref. 3 It is simple, Kronos is changing timbre by himself. I do not know how and why.
No, Kronos did not get any Ctrl signal from Ableton.
I do not chnge any timbre, combi, modify combi and so on.
I prepare timbres in combi and save as a new combi before I start record midi tracks in Ableton.
_________________
Greetings!

Zibi

--------------------------------------------------------
Korg Kronos 88, Zoom LiveTrak 12, Behringer FCB 1010, EVE Audio 205, Klark Teknik DW 20BR, Ableton Live 11
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bpoodoo
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2019
Posts: 429
Location: Ding Dong, TX

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure you have not inadvertently selected the Category or Program field on the Kronos touchscreen for the affected track/timbre. A slight movement of the value slider, jog wheel, etc. can change the Program in such a case.
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bpoodoo
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zibistanczyk



Joined: 03 Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpoodoo wrote:
Make sure you have not inadvertently selected the Category or Program field on the Kronos touchscreen for the affected track/timbre. A slight movement of the value slider, jog wheel, etc. can change the Program in such a case.


Thanks bpoodoo for the suggestion but this is no reason. I am attentive and pay attention to it.

It must be something else, but unfortunately I do not know what Sad
_________________
Greetings!

Zibi

--------------------------------------------------------
Korg Kronos 88, Zoom LiveTrak 12, Behringer FCB 1010, EVE Audio 205, Klark Teknik DW 20BR, Ableton Live 11
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bpoodoo
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2019
Posts: 429
Location: Ding Dong, TX

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing you could try is in sequence mode go to the MIDI filter page and uncheck "Enable program change" for each track. This would be a workaround to provide a some more information about the root cause.

If this fixes it, then it would imply something from Ableton is sending a program change message. If during sequence playback the same program change happens at the same time, that would imply there's a program change control message within the MIDI track data. Those events could be deleted. Go to Track Edit>Event Edit and check Program Change to be certain there are no Program Change events in the MIDI tracks as copied into the Kronos sequencer.

If it doesn't fix it, then yes it seems like the Kronos itself is changing the program.
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alland
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 577
Location: Estonia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem with Combi Korg Kronos Reply with quote

zibistanczyk wrote:
Ref. 3 It is simple, Kronos is changing timbre by himself. I do not know how and why.

This is very unprobable. Kronos changes timbre when it gets MIDI message either from internal SEQ or by external SEQ/MIDI.
Just for try, if timbre change comes from outside: Filter it out : To eliminate external MIDI Program change use Global->MIDI->Midi Filter->Enable program change (unselect all under that).

How do you prepare/record MIDI tracks in Ableton that you later play back by Kronos? Could it be that this preparing process records some bank/program change events that reach your Kronos when played back?
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zibistanczyk



Joined: 03 Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you guys [ alland & bpoodoo]!
I will try it and let you know.

alland wrote:
zibistanczyk wrote:
Ref. 3 It is simple, Kronos is changing timbre by himself. I do not know how and why.

This is very unprobable. Kronos changes timbre when it gets MIDI message either from internal SEQ or by external SEQ/MIDI.
Just for try, if timbre change comes from outside: Filter it out : To eliminate external MIDI Program change use Global->MIDI->Midi Filter->Enable program change (unselect all under that).

How do you prepare/record MIDI tracks in Ableton that you later play back by Kronos? Could it be that this preparing process records some bank/program change events that reach your Kronos when played back?


Below you can find my Ableton screen. You can see how I have conected my Kronos to the Zoom Livetrack 12 mixer and directly to the computer.

_________________
Greetings!

Zibi

--------------------------------------------------------
Korg Kronos 88, Zoom LiveTrak 12, Behringer FCB 1010, EVE Audio 205, Klark Teknik DW 20BR, Ableton Live 11
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alland
Platinum Member


Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 577
Location: Estonia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zibistanczyk wrote:

Below you can find my Ableton screen. You can see how I have conected my Kronos to the Zoom Livetrack 12 mixer and directly to the computer.

Yes, picture makses sense Smile
In order to determine from where those mysterious program changes come, some additional information would be helpful:
1) How exactly do you record those clips e.g. "Prechorus 1" bass track? Or do you use some (commercially or not) available prerecorded stuff?
2) If you can/want you may PM one of your .als file that makes you trouble and I can see it in my Ableton/Kronos to find, if it generates some Pgm cahnge events and why
3) Or if not, post a srceenshot where some troubling clip is selected and midi piano roll visible + also "Notes box" visible
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