Korg Forums

[dpasdernick]

Hi Guys and Gals,

I just bought my first Kronos (a used original one with 88 keys) and have a quick question.

I want to buy some of the Kapro and Karo sounds for it. Specifically EXS 19, EXS 122 and EXS 50.

Will I be able to load all of these libraries into my stock Kronos and not have them mess up the internal sounds? I think hard drive space seems to be good but I ran out of ram? (maybe) trying to install these three demos.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

All the very best,

Darren

PS are these the best choices for a beginner who wants to add to the orchestral side of things? They are all on sale at the moment and Some of the patches are really nice.

[Track 7]

Those libraries sound like excellent choices to me. I have only EXs 51 and have got huge mileage out of it over the years.

Note that EXs 122 by default occupies the same first 64 program slots as EXs 19. You'll just need to specify a different bank. Maybe you've done this already in demo mode?

As for RAM, if your original Kronos has not been upgraded with an additional 1GB, you can add it yourself:

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=67710

And/or you can go into Global KSC Auto-Load and uncheck some stuff you don't need. This will free up RAM without deleting anything.

[Pieah]

[Track 7]

I wonder if the wrong versions of 19 and 45 were installed. If you go to their pages in the Korg store, you'll see some fine print with the download links:

For new KRONOS: Download the EXs19 demo version
For KRONOS/KRONOS X: Download the EXs19 demo version

I think your SE will need the top one.

As for loading and unloading libraries, do you have the Kronos Parameter Guide?

https://www.korg.com/us/support/download/manual/0/424/2011/

Check out these sections:

Page 763:
0–3: KSC Auto-Load

Page 766:
0–4: Sample Management

Somewhere there's an option to specify which bank you want to use in case you want to override the default.

[tunaman]

I’ll take a stab to start... you really need to read the Operation Guide and Parameter Guide closely regarding file management, sample management and Program management as it doesn’t appear that you understand the concepts, no offense intended. These are areas a Kronos user really needs to grep, if they are going to install and manage external libraries.

First and foremost - BE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND HOW TO BACK UP AND MANAGE YOUR PCG DATA!!! Make frequent backups, and copy them onto external media (USB, computer hard drive, etc.).

Programs can be installed anywhere. There are two types - EXi and HD-1. Each Program Bank is initialized for one or the other Program type, and one can only load Programs of that type within the specified Banks. One can re-initialize a Bank to change it from one type or the other, which will clear out all existing Programs and allow one to install different Programs into that Bank.

The EXi Programs depend upon samples - the EX libraries you referenced above are collections of such samples, and are included in the installation process. Each set will have an associated KSC file which contains the pointers to those samples, and must be loaded in order for those samples to be available to the Programs which depend on them.

The Auto-Load page in Global mode allows one to add the KSC file to the list, and if selected (checked) it will attempt to automatically load all of the sample data every time the Kronos starts up. IF there is sufficient available RAM space, all of those samples will load into memory and be available to the Programs.

One can also use this Global page to load specific sample sets on demand (un-checked). It is a bit of a PITA, as one needs to make the desired selections (check and un-check the specific KSC files) and then tap the button in the bottom right to force a reload. This is also the way to unload all Samples currently in memory, for instance when you want to create a user sample.

One can redirect any or all Programs during install. Just prior to loading the data a dialog box is presented which indicates where the default Program is set to load, allowing one to select a different Bank/Slot to load it into. If this is a single Program, it will overwrite whatever Program currently exists. If it is a number of Programs, it will overwrite all subsequent Programs in that Bank.

I’d suggest looking into a utility names PCGTools, if you haven’t done so already, as it is an invaluable tool for managing and manipulating PCG data and also extremely helpful in understanding the structure, content and composition. It also allows one to move existing Programs and Combinations from one Bank to another (type dependent, of course), so one can consolidate the use of the available slots and free up concurrent space to accommodate installing external or shared PC content.

Last point I want to address - if you receive an error indicating “Sample Not Loaded”, tap the menu in the upper right corner and select the option to load required samples - it will do so if that sample collection is available, or give an error where you can determine what is missing.

Hope this helps?

[dpasdernick]

Thank you all for the responses! And thank you Tunaman for the Great explanation. You're right, I do need to read up on the file structures. I'm so spoiled with virtual instruments with seemingly infinite storage, especially for simple patches. Even my MODX8 seems to allow a ton of patches.

I am a little taken aback that there seems to be little room for multiple 3rd party libs. I bought the Karo exs50 library and got it going, mostly. Still having issues with the Karo combis not "seeing" the right programs.

I was hoping to load up the Kronos with a ton of 3rd party sounds but it looks like I'll have to be very particular.

Thanks again, guys for all the help!

Darren

[Pieah]

Thanks guys!

I read the manual and parameter guide about loading programs and it is becoming a little bit clearer. Since some EXs files were giving me an error about being for an older Kronos, I decided to do the following for the EXs19:
Download the Kronos 'new version' version from the Kronos shop (K2_EXS19.zip). I extracted the zip file to a folder on the USB so now on the USB I have a folder called K2_EXS19. In this folder are 3 files, EXs19.exsins, EXs19.tar and S019 (no extension).
On the Kronos I removed all the .KSC's from the autoload except the Preload.KSC to make sure there is no confusion there.
I inserted the USB in the Kronos and navigated to this folder and chose 'install'. It then gave me a warning that EXs19 was already installed and I clicked ok to continue. Then it took a few minutes and it said: installation successful!
Now I went to the internal disk again and selected the EXs19.PCG and selected 'load'. I selected 'Load EXs19.KSC too'. I set the PCG Contents to 'all' and the KSC allocation to 'Append'. Then I clicked OK.
Now I go to Program mode and select 'user-g' where the programs are listed. All seems fine but when going through the programs, at program U-G032: Recit Organ 1 Kn5-8' I'm seeing a 'Samples not loaded' error. It plays sound though and I don't hear anything missing. On the top right I click the dropdown menu and select 'Load required samples'. Now it is showing 4 samples that are not loaded: EXs47 KApro Symphonic Dreams 4 stereo' MS: 1, MS: 7, MS: 50 and MS: 53.
This is where I am getting confused. The program is a part of the EXs19, I installed EXs19 and I loaded the EXs19.PCG and EXs19.KSC per above but some programs have missing samples. From the Load required samples screen I now select 'load only required samples' and clicked Load. It then loaded the samples and the 'missing samples' error is gone now.
Rebooted the Kronos and set Preload.KSC and ESx19.KSC to 'preload'. Still 'samples not loaded' on program U-G033 (and some more at higher numbers).
Kronos OS is on 3.1.3 and there is 3GB installed memory.
I am quite baffled now. Am I missing something? I cannot find the answer in the manual, I hope someone here can shed some light on this...

[tunaman]

You did well, and at least the samples loaded so they are present in the filesystem.

There may be a supplemental KSC which needs to be auto-loaded? Here’s how I would approach this - I’m sure others might do differently, and will likely have suggestions as well:

Copy the contents of the hard drive into a subdirectory on a USB stick - good to have a full offline backup anyway;

Open the directory structure on my computer;

Closely examine the content, looking specifically for KSC files;

Open each KSC file (they are just text files) and search for the terms referenced as missing; alternatively I would use a CLI tool ‘find’ to automate the search;

If I’m able to locate a KSC file to add to the auto-load list, issue resolved;

If not, I would probably try a more brute force approach.

Uncheck all KSC files from the auto-load list, then hit the reload button to clear out all loaded samples;

Go to the Program you are having issues with and load it;

Use the menu option to load all required samples;

Create a user sample in the root (Save Sampling Data from the Save menu in Disk mode);

Reload the original KSC files, manually load the user sample file, and see if the issue is resolved.

I have a number of user samples I’ve created and load at startup anyway, and unfortunately they can’t be configured to load automatically. Each time I create a new sample, once finished I basically append it to the user samples in my load file and I manually load that file each time I start my Kronos.

Not sure if that would work, but it is something I would try if the first suggestion didn’t bear fruit.

Of course, the simple answer would be to reach out to the vendor with the additional information you have

[Pieah]

Pfff ok I finally found the issue. After uninstalling all the EXs programs, removing the PCG and KSE files, rebooting, re-installing them, the issue was still there. The referenced missing samples didn't make sense. They were not in the KSC file. Also, in the program itself the list of used samples didn't mention those that were missing. Then I decided to go to the Factory folder and load the preload.ksc from there. And now there are no more 'missing samples' errors. I removed the preload.ksc from the autoload section and re-added it from the factory folder. Maybe it was corrupted in any other way messed up (it is a Kronos SE that was used as a demo model in the shop), I don't know but now it is working as expected! I'm getting flashbacks from the time I was editing the config.sys and autoexec.bat to get my new soundblaster working...

Thanks Tunaman! And thanks Track 7!

[Space Girl]

HI, just joined so hope I am doing this right!

I got my first Kronos 2 - 9 months ago and I am still trying to find space for new Ex's, so this posting is quite handy for me aswell.
I am about to purchase some more KApro's which are excellent, I am aready out of room and still a bit unsure of the best way to manage going back and forth between PCG's (your normal set up or your new purchased set up). I just know how confusing it gets.
I want to be able to have all my favorite patches actually available at all times with ease but that is not possible due to there being no room for new ones. So what is the the best way to do this? Should I just make some PCG back ups of my newly installed KApro's and just go back and forth to them when I want to play my new patches?
I get confused at the best of times and gets worse with age


This maybe helpful to someone perhaps- I asked Korg but it still didn't help me with what I needed to know.

Thank you for contacting Korg USA Product Support.
If you are running out of complete empty banks, the only suggestion would be to locate banks that are the least filled and try to condense multiple banks together by moving programs around to free up an entire bank.

You save full banks to a USB flash drive if you wish to load and unload different banks as you wish. Please remember there is no issues when loading and unloading program banks, but when loading and unloading combination banks, you need to make sure the programs that are used in the combination are installed in the Kronos and in the bank locations referenced in the combination so the correct sounds are heard in the combination.


If you loaded programs and combinations into a Kronos, but changed the bank location of the programs, you must reassign the program bank in the combinations so the correct programs are selected. You can easily reassign the programs in the combinations by pressing the GLOBAL button and the two “Basic” tabs. Then touch the top right corner of the LCD screen, select “Change all bank references” and then touch the combination checkbox in the popup screen. Locate the original program bank left of the arrowhead, select the new program bank using the dropdown arrow and touch “OK”.


Please see the links below to two tutorial videos that explain how to install programs / combinations into different locations, as well as reassign the programs in the combinations.

Korg Kronos Tutorial: Save and load programs and combinations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFAMD_J5k2Q

Here are some valuable tutorials for Kronos Newbies, they really helped me a great deal.

http://www.quirobinez.nl/korg-kronos-demos/

[Space Girl]

HI, just joined so hope I am doing this right!

I got my first Kronos 2 - 9 months ago and I am still trying to find space for new Ex's, so this posting is quite handy for me aswell.
I am about to purchase some more KApro's which are excellent, I am aready out of room and still a bit unsure of the best way to manage going back and forth between PCG's (your normal set up or your new purchased set up). I just know how confusing it gets.
I want to be able to have all my favorite patches actually available at all times with ease but that is not possible due to there being no room for new ones. So what is the the best way to do this? Should I just make some PCG back ups of my newly installed KApro's and just go back and forth to them when I want to play my new patches?
I get confused at the best of times and gets worse with age


This maybe helpful to someone perhaps- I asked Korg but it still didn't help me with what I needed to know.

Thank you for contacting Korg USA Product Support.
If you are running out of complete empty banks, the only suggestion would be to locate banks that are the least filled and try to condense multiple banks together by moving programs around to free up an entire bank.

You save full banks to a USB flash drive if you wish to load and unload different banks as you wish. Please remember there is no issues when loading and unloading program banks, but when loading and unloading combination banks, you need to make sure the programs that are used in the combination are installed in the Kronos and in the bank locations referenced in the combination so the correct sounds are heard in the combination.


If you loaded programs and combinations into a Kronos, but changed the bank location of the programs, you must reassign the program bank in the combinations so the correct programs are selected. You can easily reassign the programs in the combinations by pressing the GLOBAL button and the two “Basic” tabs. Then touch the top right corner of the LCD screen, select “Change all bank references” and then touch the combination checkbox in the popup screen. Locate the original program bank left of the arrowhead, select the new program bank using the dropdown arrow and touch “OK”.


Please see the links below to two tutorial videos that explain how to install programs / combinations into different locations, as well as reassign the programs in the combinations.

Korg Kronos Tutorial: Save and load programs and combinations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFAMD_J5k2Q

Here are some valuable tutorials for Kronos Newbies, they really helped me a great deal.

http://www.quirobinez.nl/korg-kronos-demos/

[Space Girl]

HI, just joined so hope I am doing this right!

I got my first Kronos 2 - 9 months ago and I am still trying to find space for new Ex's, so this posting is quite handy for me aswell.
I am about to purchase some more KApro's which are excellent, I am aready out of room and still a bit unsure of the best way to manage going back and forth between PCG's (your normal set up or your new purchased set up). I just know how confusing it gets.
I want to be able to have all my favorite patches actually available at all times with ease but that is not possible due to there being no room for new ones. So what is the the best way to do this? Should I just make some PCG back ups of my newly installed KApro's and just go back and forth to them when I want to play my new patches?
I get confused at the best of times and gets worse with age


This maybe helpful to someone perhaps- I asked Korg but it still didn't help me with what I needed to know.

Thank you for contacting Korg USA Product Support.
If you are running out of complete empty banks, the only suggestion would be to locate banks that are the least filled and try to condense multiple banks together by moving programs around to free up an entire bank.

You save full banks to a USB flash drive if you wish to load and unload different banks as you wish. Please remember there is no issues when loading and unloading program banks, but when loading and unloading combination banks, you need to make sure the programs that are used in the combination are installed in the Kronos and in the bank locations referenced in the combination so the correct sounds are heard in the combination.


If you loaded programs and combinations into a Kronos, but changed the bank location of the programs, you must reassign the program bank in the combinations so the correct programs are selected. You can easily reassign the programs in the combinations by pressing the GLOBAL button and the two “Basic” tabs. Then touch the top right corner of the LCD screen, select “Change all bank references” and then touch the combination checkbox in the popup screen. Locate the original program bank left of the arrowhead, select the new program bank using the dropdown arrow and touch “OK”.


Please see the links below to two tutorial videos that explain how to install programs / combinations into different locations, as well as reassign the programs in the combinations.

Korg Kronos Tutorial: Save and load programs and combinations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFAMD_J5k2Q

Here are some valuable tutorials for Kronos Newbies, they really helped me a great deal.

http://www.quirobinez.nl/korg-kronos-demos/

[tunaman]

Welcome! One thing you’re not doing right... please click the Submit button once and wait for the page to load - that will prevent duplicate and triplicate postings

[tunaman]

Regarding PCG management - yes, you can maintain separate PCG files so that you can go back and forth between Program sets. It wouldn’t be all that difficult to set up, especially if you used PCG Tools to help create the files.

It takes a relatively intimate level of knowledge of the Program/Combi structure, and needs to be thought out and well planned, but is easily doable if done right.

Your Sample management might be the bigger issue - you’d need to determine if all of the required samples can be loaded simultaneously in RAM, or not, as that would then also require manipulation of the appropriate KSC files to accommodate each unique PCG set. Also doable, but more complexity.

The other question is functional - how often would you plan to switch, and who much setup time is acceptable? I don’t think this would be very practical for gigging, or flipping back and forth, but could work on a session by session basis.

Another approach would be to go through each Program and identify those you don’t want or need, then remove them and consolidate the remaining Programs in concurrent locations to free up consecutive slots for your libraries.

Unfortunately, Program space is not unlimited and is a precious commodity. There is plenty of room for creative work-arounds, but they require advanced-level understanding.

Good luck!

[Pieah]

I think it works something like this:
If you load a PCG file, it loads the programs/combinations and during this step you can choose where you want to load the banks. If you choose 'all' it will load it into the banks as specified in the PCG (I don't know how to edit those). If you click the arrow next to 'all', you can select a specific bank from the PCG to load, and then next to it you can choose a target bank on your Kronos.
Once this step is done, the programs/combinations etc. are in the location where you loaded them and they will stay here even if you reboot your Kronos.
So now you have them in the desired location but if any program is using samples not from the default Kronos samples, they won't work until you also load the samples. These are loaded using the KSC file. You don't need to choose a specific location for samples, once you load them, the programs using the samples can use them.
So let's say you installed 4 EXs files on your Kronos, and you loaded each PCG into its own bank. If you add the KSC files for these EXs in the Global/Autoload KSC but don't mark it for autoload, then whenever you want to use any of the EXs programs, you simply go to autoload and select 'autoload now'. Unfortunately if you want to load it together with the preload.ksc (which is 1.6GB in RAM) it will take quite a long time to load it. Another option is to go to Disk Mode, then load the KSC file from there when you want to use it. There you can choose to 'append' it to the current loaded samples or to clear all the samples and then load it.

It's a bit of a PITA because the preload.ksc takes up 1.6GB RAM of the 1.9GB available. (in my case, I have a Kronos SE with 3GB ram, 1GB is for the OS, 1.9GB left for samples). So that leaves around 300MB for EXs. Using autoload you can autoload the samples for one or two banks if you use them a lot.

Another route is this:
After booting the Kronos, go to Disk mode and select the PCG, then select 'Load the xxxx.KSC too'. Then click 'all' to change it to the bank that you want to load and select a target bank. In my case, this usually means cancel, open the PCG, open Programs then look which bank it is using, then up, up, then load, then select that bank and select a target bank, select the 'load xxxx.ksc too'. Set it to 'append' for the samples if there is enough memory. If not you have to choose 'clear all'. Then load it and play.

If you don't use these EXs banks simultaneously you can opt to always load them into a specific bank that you always use for loading an EXs. Say you use User-GG for this, you just select your PCG file, load it into User-GG and play. If you want to load another PCG file, you load that one into User-GG. Then you use the other banks to save your own creations.

edit: above is how I think it works so I could be wrong about a lot of stuff since I am still new to Kronos...

Some questions I still have to figure out:
If a PCG contains both programs and combinations, do you have to load it twice if you want to choose where to load the programs and where to load the combinations?
If a PCG contains drum kits how can you choose where it loads those?
If a PCG contains wave sequences, where do those go when loading?
How can I edit the banks specified in a PCG file so I can set them to the bank I want and don't have to do this manually every time I want to load it? I have PCG Tools but I cannot figure out how to edit the banks.
Is there a way to visualize which programs/combinations are not loaded?
Is there a way to auto remove the programs loaded from PCG files when rebooting? My banks are filled with different EXs programs but don't work until I load the KSC that belongs to it. Well they work partially a lot of times when they use default instruments/samples from the Kronos so it becomes quite a confusing mess pretty soon.

By the way, did anyone notice the screenshot of the PCG loading on page 841? Interestingly, it shows 2.3GB available memory. How is that possible? I thought 1.9GB is the max, but maybe it can somehow be increased?


Anyway, quite an adventure figuring out the workings of a Kronos.