Korg Forums

[Ksynth]

https://sonicstate.com/news/2021/06/18/korg-ships-their-nautilus-workstation/
_________________
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1251

[SeedyLee]

It is basically a Kronos LE: it shares the same basic software and architecture of the Kronos, with some updated sounds, a new UI theme and an Arpeggiator instead of Karma.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One

[jimknopf]

The double annoyance is that Korg
- a) offers the updated sounds only on an inferior device with a ridiculously poor controller surface, not at all suited for serious live play
- b) so far (since many months) leaves the flagship Kronos without the urgently needed EP updates, which they could easily implement there as well.

That's just offering whack different kinds of shortcomings, not making much sense, across their keyboards, in classical bad Rolandesque manner. Does anyone at Korg seriously think, that they could make the bad controller surface of the Nautilus more attractive by adding a few updated sounds, which they so far deny being bought and used by gigging keyboarders using a Kronos???

I don't recognize and understand this company any longer. Their whole famous flagship workstation spirit seems to have vanished into thin air since some years meanwhile.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

[spottingjonah]

[SeedyLee]

I didn’t buy the Kronos because it was a workstation, bur fell in love with the workstation concept over the time I have owned it. For me, it replaces a Kronos LE on which I never used the sequencer, but used almost every other function.

Now my Kronos is ageing and there’s no apparent replacement on the horizon. This has me looking at alternatives, such as investing in soft synths which appears to be de rigeur these days. Korg had a captive market but they have squandered it - if I make a change to a more vibrant ecosystem it’s going going to take a very compelling product in the future to win me back.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One

[jimknopf]

Similar situation here.

The Kronos EP engine belonged to the best on the market, when the Kronos appeared over a decade ago. But from then to nowadays a lot has happened and improved in the world of sampling and advanced sample based modelling of EPs and of VA synths.

Right now, I prefer even the scaled down version of the Scarbee 88 in Korg Module on my iPads as FAR better, than anything the Kronos EP engine has to offer - not talking of the real benchmarks like the full Scarbee or Spectrasonics Keyscape (and other great software alternative) EP versions for Rhodes and Wurly.

At least iPad quality level should be possible on the present or any updated versions of the Kronos, without any problem. Instead, Korg offers slightly updated EP engine sounds for the inferior Naulilus concept only, and doesn't bother to keep Kronos customers updated, half a year after introducing the Nautilus, neither with updated software nor with any convincing Kronos successor. That's just really, really lame!

After experiencing the year long Prologue tuning desaster, selling faulty Prologues at full price (I meanwhile sold my Prologue 16 again, because even fixed, it didn't convince me in the long run), this all certainly doesn't help me as long time Korg user to keep old company bonds. And as a Kronos user, I look for and use more and more alternatives, wherever possible. The Kronos is still in good use here, but it's former absolute centerpiece gear status is rapidly fading for me.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

[SeedyLee]

The processor in a modern iPad is vastly more powerful than the one in the Kronos, with much better thermal and energy efficiency.

Then you look at Korg’s more “casual” range of digital synths like the opsix and wave state: did you know they run off-the-shelf Raspberry PIs? You know, these cheap $40 computer boards originally intended for schools, students and hobbyists? Now I’m not saying they lack power or aren’t fit for purpose, but again, an iPad is vastly more powerful. Hence it’s not surprising that iPad apps are decimating Korg’s line-up in terms of performance.

Even more like incredible is the performance of the new Apple M1 processor. On an Intel i5 from 2015, It wasn’t unheard of for u-he’s Diva to reach 20-25 notes of polyphony. On the M1 the same patch can now reach 160-180 notes of polyphony.

It’s hard to see how Korg are going to continue to compete without returning to the use of ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuits) with similar lithography to modern ARM chips. But wouldn’t it be phenomenal to see an integrated workstation with Korg’s DSP know-how and, say, 1024 notes of polyphony and huge sample libraries? It is possible, but the investment would be huge.

In the meantime, I will keep my Kronos running as long as I can and steer away from Korg’s new micro synths running Linux and a hobby computer.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One

[jimknopf]

Yes, ipads (and by that I mean the older generations and not the actual M1) have vastly more computing power, but to make the comparison fair: they run a complete DAW (like Cubasis) with two dozen plugins plus Anytune Pro and other apps at the same time.

There would be enough really well payable CPU power out there nowadays below iPad power, to make an actual Kronos still run on vastly better CPU resources than so far, without any need to be as good as a multi-purpose iPad.

What I want to say: from my view Korg looks a bit lazy doing proper homework
a) providing Kronos users in due time with these small but urgently needed EP sound updates. As these could be paid expansions, there's no good excuse for not doing so IMO.
b) upgrading the Kronos, after more than a decade, at least to halfway decent nowadays tech specs in a new version (if a real successor development is too much for them), and develop some (even if only gradually advancing) software enhancements, based on this actual better (and still not too expensive) hardware.

It simply can't stay as it is now, or they will loose lots of faithful customers, not returning easily once relying on alternatives, as you said.
_________________
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5

[Lou Sevens]

Lou Sevens here- happy Saturday so far.
I had been looking forward to the Nautilus all winter- one of the things that got me through this time.

In hindsight I should have gotten a Kronos 10 years ago- given all the money I payed to Mickey Numbers (lotto, football pools).

I paid $1,600 for the 61 key (minus my $339 Krome trade in- I thought Krome had some decent sounds but was just okay)

i am enjoying the board so far- I will get a dynamic mic with my credits from retailer to do vocals.

I would have liked for them to include more than 2 banks of combos.

I also wrote to Korg about when the piano upgrades to load in the blank expansion spots would be available and they didnt know.

I don't think it is easy to compare this to a computer/DAw they are different and VSTS.

The board will help me become me again. ANything else is trivial.

[spottingjonah]

[SeedyLee]

I would argue that Korg haven’t lost their way - I think they’ve probably found a very lucrative path forward that caters to a different demographic and helps maximise short to medium term profitability.

I just don’t think it’s a strategy that’s going to work out well in the long run for them.

there’s a very good chance the Kronos will be the last of its kind.
_________________
Current Equipment:
Korg Kronos 2 88, Reface CS, Roland JV-1080, TE OP1, Moog Subsequent 37, Korg ARP Odyssey, Allen & Heath Zed 18, Adam F5, MOTU MIDI Express XT, Lexicon MX200 & MPX1, Yamaha QY700, Yamaha AW16G, Tascam DP008ex, Zoom H6, Organelle, Roland J6 & JU06A

Previous: Triton LE 61/Sampling/64MB/4GB SCSI, MS2000BR, Kronos 1 61, Monotribe, NanoKontrol, NanoKeys, Kaossilator II, Casio HT3000, Roland VP-03, Reface DX, Novation Mininova, MPC One

[Bachus]

[Bachus]

[Lou Sevens]

[Koekepan]

It really comes down to what you want.

The Kronos delivers a few things in parallel: a useful performance interface, a complex sequencer with real linear capabilities, synthesis and effects engines, external control options for studio hub duties, and rendering to a final result.

Many Kronos buyers just don't use all of the above, and that's OK. Grabbing some lush synthesis options and playing them expressively is the gigging baseline, and fortunately Roland and Yamaha are standing by to compete on this front. The thing that is hardest to replace in the Kronos capabilities is probably the sequencing and studio master. There may be other options, but today the top candidates that I can identify come from Kurzweil and Akai Professional. KORG has just abandoned the field to them.

Oh well. The Nautilus isn't bad. It's overpriced and underpowered, but it's not actually bad.