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Korg Kronos 2 73Key Second SSD install :(

 
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blazerunner
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:17 am    Post subject: Korg Kronos 2 73Key Second SSD install :( Reply with quote

Tried to install a second SSD into my keyboard. Only to find the port is under the keybed and there is a loom of wires cable tied right over it. I ended up getting the 90degree sata cable I got into it but it locked up the black key that's directly above the port. I ended up breaking the Sata port when I tried to remove it because the space was so tight.

Well I guess that's it for the K2 73. You're stuck with the stock drive or if you cross your fingers maybe you can clone a boot drive and hopefully have it work. As for a 2nd SSD it's can't be done on this model. I just realized every single 2nd SSD install I've ever come across was for the original Kronos where the ports are parallel and not the K2 where the mother board is different.

This was such a poor design choice by Korg. It's bad enough they were cheap and shipped this thing with a baby SSD but it's not even up-gradable. What now? Copying and pasting off USB cards till I get rid of this thing?

I'm sorry my friends but I won't be able to join any of you in the 2nd SSD Halls of Valhalla.
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KK
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

I have two SSDs in my K2 88 so it can be done, even though as you discovered it is more difficult compared to earlier models because (at least in the 88-key version of the K2) there are additional solidifying metal plates and you have to temporarily remove the one above the mobo to install the other SATA cable.

Another option is as you mention, clone the existing one on a larger SSD. This is exactly what I have now : my Kronos still boots on the 1st port but it's now a 250 GB SSD and I connected the original smaller SSD on the 2nd port.
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blazerunner
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
Hi there,

I have two SSDs in my K2 88 so it can be done, even though as you discovered it is more difficult compared to earlier models because (at least in the 88-key version of the K2) there are additional solidifying metal plates and you have to temporarily remove the one above the mobo to install the other SATA cable.

Another option is as you mention, clone the existing one on a larger SSD. This is exactly what I have now : my Kronos still boots on the 1st port but it's now a 250 GB SSD and I connected the original smaller SSD on the 2nd port.


Thanks, for the info. Might be a bit different on the 88. On the 73. You can actually just lift up the Metal retainer on the keybed and get clearance but once you sit it down it pushes on the hammer of the black key because there isn't enough clearance for connector on the cable. I tried the regular and 90 degree. Some low profile Sata cables might be low enough to clear the keybed without causing the key to hang up. I would try that but my Sata Pin on my motherboard broke off so I'm screwed entirely.

I thought about doing the clone thing but it doesn't seem as stable in the long run. When I researched the stock keyboard it uses an Industrial SSD from Innodisk. A very expensive drive that's built to a more demanding standard than than the off the shelf stuff we're all used to chucking in our PC's.

I think I might just opt for the USB cable and external storage drive.
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blazerunner
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to attempt to repair the Sata Port. It was a clean break. I'll take my chance though.
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KK
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the reliability of SSDs, I have zero problems after more than 2 years with a 250 GB Samsung EVO. And I practice several hours every day, most of the time advanced classical / prog stuff, so for sure the SSD has to deal with myriads of shocks and small earthquakes from the nearby keys and a crazy amount of read requests, so I'm pretty sure if it had to fail it would have happened already. Laughing

About the SATA cable, back then I got a iCAN‿SATA3-6G-24RR but again it was for a K2 88. You might be just fine with a shorter one or, on the worst case, the existing cable to connect a fine bigger SSD if you can't fix the port.
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danmusician
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
Hi there,

I have two SSDs in my K2 88 so it can be done, even though as you discovered it is more difficult compared to earlier models because (at least in the 88-key version of the K2) there are additional solidifying metal plates and you have to temporarily remove the one above the mobo to install the other SATA cable.


Is there a video or photos posted somewhere on how to install a second SSD in a K2-88? I’ve never been able to find one…
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KK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, the first pic shows mine with the 2nd SATA cable installed. On the second pic (sorry if blurry a bit), I circled in red the screws that need to be undone so to remove the metallic panel and access the 2nd SATA port on a K2 88. Of course, you don't have to remove more stuff than needed (that pic is from my LCD screen mod last year when my Kronos was just a bunch of parts spread everywhere). Shame on you




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blazerunner
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
About the reliability of SSDs, I have zero problems after more than 2 years with a 250 GB Samsung EVO. And I practice several hours every day, most of the time advanced classical / prog stuff, so for sure the SSD has to deal with myriads of shocks and small earthquakes from the nearby keys and a crazy amount of read requests, so I'm pretty sure if it had to fail it would have happened already. Laughing

About the SATA cable, back then I got a iCAN‿SATA3-6G-24RR but again it was for a K2 88. You might be just fine with a shorter one or, on the worst case, the existing cable to connect a fine bigger SSD if you can't fix the port.


Thanks for that insight. I think I got the port fixed. Just the metal prongs that hold the port on broke but the the little prongs that carry the data are intact. So cross my fingers.

I really would like to see what the inside of the 88key looks like. I'm curious as to what's different. I ended up pulling off my keybed to get to the sata port. I would honestly recommend doing that if someone were attempting to install a 2nd SSD drive on the 73 and run their cables. It really is that simple to get off and safer.

The wire I thought Korg ran over the 2nd Sata port was worse that I thought. They didn't just run it over the port but it connects into a motherboard port adjacent to the 2nd Sata port and it's "GLUED" in. So you can't even remove it to get better access. You really have use a bit of force to push the wires aside or undo the factory tie downs and try to move the cables around at least.

Thing is that depending on the size of your Sata cable that wire is going to be putting pressure on the port. It seems like if you have a low profile sata cable it can clear the wire. I ordered a SilverStone CP11B to try. If that doesn't work I don't know what could possibly be sleek enough to clear that area.

I'm glad you 88 guys are having better luck. Just to get full access to my Sata port on the 73 I had to pull the keybed and a cover on the motherboard.Korg could never convince me they intended for this to be expanded with a 2nd SSD.

I like hearing about success with cloning the main drive. I just didn't want to chance it. I've had to much bad luck in my music life with hard drives that cost me months worth of songs. I'd be heartbroken to ever have to deal with that again.

I understand why Korg didn't put in a bigger SSD drive because the one in there is pretty pricey as it is. I just thought they were being cheap BUT, the could have made it easier on us all and offered an aftermarket SSD kit to install in our keyboards like Akai used to do that back in the day with the Zip disk upgrades. They had the drive,hardware and instructions all bundled in a box.

I thank for all the help. I don't want to seem like I'm complaining about getting the drive in. I'm just determine to get it done one way or another. This 73K2 is going to have a 2nd SSD drive installed.
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KK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

On the K2 88 too you have no choice but to first remove the entire keyboard assembly before you can remove the metal cover mentioned earlier.

Oh and congrats on your discovery of the tiny daughterboard (KLM-3366 if I recall correctly). It is possibly the most fragile part in the Kronos, but for the K2s they added some safety for it so that's good. As you can see on my pics above, I made sure to run both SATA cables away from that critical area. Wink
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blazerunner
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KK wrote:
Hi there,

On the K2 88 too you have no choice but to first remove the entire keyboard assembly before you can remove the metal cover mentioned earlier.

Oh and congrats on your discovery of the tiny daughterboard (KLM-3366 if I recall correctly). It is possibly the most fragile part in the Kronos, but for the K2s they added some safety for it so that's good. As you can see on my pics above, I made sure to run both SATA cables away from that critical area. Wink


I'm glad you documented all your stuff for people. I guess there isn't much difference from the build of the 88 and 73 except which key is going to be over the Sata port. I'm anxious to see how the low profile sata cable will do. This drive is going in here one way or another.
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soarsco



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, I also have a second SSD waiting to be installed in my K2 88. I also have an ASROCK J4105B motherboard I was going to see if I can make run in the K2. It has a very similar architecture to the MB in there now. Really all it will add is faster USB, so perhaps the K2 will boot faster. The CPU is slightly faster but I see no real benefit without hacking some of the files, at least the one that defines how many note can be played per engine.
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blazerunner
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally the battle has been won!
Very Happy

I am the proud owner of a 500GB expanded Korg Kronos 2 73Key!!!

Boy did I ever smile ear to ear when I saw that drive appear up on the menu.

By some miracle I was able to fix my Sata Port and get the drive hooked up.

I installed a WD Blue 500gb SSD. I was going to get the Kingston at first as I have one installed in my Akai Force but decided to spend a few more bucks and get a 500GB drive.

I think the key to installing it was that I purchased a
SilverStone Technology SST-CP11B-500 Ultra Thin Low Profile SATA Cable

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KTLGDZG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and it was absolutely perfect. The perfect length to run along the stock wire harness and plenty of room to attach to the drive without any hassles.

Since the sata connector is low profile I was able to plug it right into the 2nd Sata port and sit it under the wire that runs right above it into the motherboard. It cleared the black piano key also without causing any key hang up like the standard sata cable did. Looks sleek and very factory.

I haven't heard of anyone adding a 2nd SSD to their K2 73 but I'm sure some have. After all I experienced I wouldn't even consider trying to add on a 2nd SSD drive without using a low profile Sata cable. It cleared every problem I encountered before.

Just very happy I got the 2nd drive installed. I've been wanting to do this for YEARS!!!!. Now my Kronos is ready for new music making adventures Dancing

If you use the sequencer a lot you eat up the stock SSD fast. If you're doing multiple mixes of your song space gets eaten up even quicker. That "No space available on medium" message is a production stopper. It's so nice to have the peace of mind knowing I can make and mix tracks to my hearts delight.

Hope this thread may help some other poor sap install a 2nd SSD in their K2. I struggled and screwed up so now no one else has too Very Happy Oh and shame on you Korg! shame Shame SHAME! on You! for making these drives so hard to put in.
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Liviou2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Korg Kronos 2 73Key Second SSD install :( Reply with quote

blazerunner wrote:
Tried to install a second SSD into my keyboard. Only to find the port is under the keybed and there is a loom of wires cable tied right over it. I ended up getting the 90degree sata cable I got into it but it locked up the black key that's directly above the port. I ended up breaking the Sata port when I tried to remove it because the space was so tight.

Well I guess that's it for the K2 73. You're stuck with the stock drive or if you cross your fingers maybe you can clone a boot drive and hopefully have it work. As for a 2nd SSD it's can't be done on this model. I just realized every single 2nd SSD install I've ever come across was for the original Kronos where the ports are parallel and not the K2 where the mother board is different.

This was such a poor design choice by Korg. It's bad enough they were cheap and shipped this thing with a baby SSD but it's not even up-gradable. What now? Copying and pasting off USB cards till I get rid of this thing?

I'm sorry my friends but I won't be able to join any of you in the 2nd SSD Halls of Valhalla.


Well, after watching some pictures and videos, I have worked on my Kronos 2 73 two times : first for replacing first SSD with a bigger one and second for adding a second SSD.
I've had absolutely no problem at all at any step of the process (cloning system, plugin in the second SSD, etc....) I didn't have to unscrew anytinhg before plugging the second SATA cable. So I didn't understand why you met so much difficulties with your K2 73 ?
I didn't find the Kronos design to be a "poor one", quite the contrary ! All is very clean, organized, accurate and well placed and done.
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blazerunner
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Korg Kronos 2 73Key Second SSD install :( Reply with quote

Liviou2004 wrote:


Well, after watching some pictures and videos, I have worked on my Kronos 2 73 two times : first for replacing first SSD with a bigger one and second for adding a second SSD.
I've had absolutely no problem at all at any step of the process (cloning system, plugin in the second SSD, etc....) I didn't have to unscrew anytinhg before plugging the second SATA cable. So I didn't understand why you met so much difficulties with your K2 73 ?
I didn't find the Kronos design to be a "poor one", quite the contrary ! All is very clean, organized, accurate and well placed and done.


Well.. mine is a 2019 Kronos2 73 Key. Unless the year makes any difference the 2nd sata port is hidden under a plate and partially covered by a wire that runs over top it that leads to a connector that cannot be moved out of the way or unplugged because it's glued in place.

Right above the Sata port is the keybed and the R3 Hammers are just slightly above the the motherboard (which is why I suspect Korg put the plate there in the first place).

If you insert a standard Sata cable or a 90degree one it's going to be pressing against the motherboard connector wire. You would also have to insert it at an angle because the plate will be in the way. If you do get the Sata cable installed the connector sits above the plate and touches one of the R3 Key Hammers and bottoms out the key.

There's no possible way to install a standard sata cable without running into those problems on the Keyboard I own as is. You have to remove the keybed and the motherboard cover plate to get full access to the port. If you don't do those things you'll risk bending and breaking the Sata port (which I also did).

The only thing that I found to work on my keyboard properly was the low profile cable that had clearance to sit under the wire and the motherboard cover plate. It doesn't interfere with the wire or make contact with anything it's not supposed too.

Who knows maybe you got a lucky board out the factory but considering all the work I had to do just to install a drive compared to other equipment I own that has access ports to swap drives. The design on the Kronos sucks big time.

An access door over the SSD drive bay with a factory Sata cable already installed so owners wouldn't have to go through all that trouble would have been a smart engineering choice.

All you'd need to do is open the door and plug in your drive and reattach the door and go on your day. If Akai can do that on the MPC's Korg sure can. Now that my cable is installed I might modify the base board and install an access door to make things easier on it like it should have been from the factory. In the future if I need to swap a drive I can just access it through the door instead of removing the entire panel.

It actually wouldn't be hard to do at all.

My gripe though with Korg really is this. This keyboard came out a decade ago and that 40gb hd or whatever in this thing might have been impressive but in today's time it's a joke. It's way to small for anyone that seriously plans on using the features of this keyboard but they never upgraded it.

Korg never once decided to throw in a larger drive. A 120gb or 240gb would be great! But they had time to change the color of the keyboard and offer a new "Italian Grand Piano"Rolling Eyes. It just makes the keyboard feel so outdated even more so than its operating system when this $3K keyboard is still shipping with a 2009 SSD. Like we wouldn't even have to do these things if Korg did them properly from the factory.

It's like buying a new BMW and then having to go out and purchase a steering wheel for it. But let's be honest there's a lot of upgrades the Kronos needs. It's a decade old Keyboard that's feeling it's age right now. Most of the problems I run into with it are because it's old and Korg never updated much on it to keep it current with technology that became available over the years.

Their answer to the Kronos complaints was to streamline it and make it less complex and call it the Nautilus but at the heart still make it the same dated Kronos.

Don't know what Korgs next Flagship move will be but they have 10 years of technology to catch up on with whatever they choose to release next. Maybe then they'll put a 120GB SSD in it and an access port and ability to track out the Kronos into a DAW. Right now the way I see it the Akai MPC has taken over the Kronos's real estate.

The groups that would have used something like the Kronos in the past have moved on to the MPC line. Because it offers their DAW software, Keygroups, and you can hook up a midi controller to it. So you have access to all these instruments and advanced features but still stay in the hardware world and can go into the software world when you need it.

Also the Nine engines don't mean as much when Akai has released their versions of these things. It's indirect competition but the Modern MPC is like a Kronos without a keybed.

And I know right now you folks are like "what's this guy ranting about he's crazy". What I'm talking about is the boom that the Triton got from the younger generation that put Korg in the spot light when it was favorably used in modern music. Through the years that continued from model to model Korg put out. Early on Kronos was still appealing to younger people making music but when things like the MPC Live and X, and now the One came out people started gravitating to those instead of workstation keyboards.

These boxes have the same capabilities of being the center of your studio. Same ability to record external instruments, vocals, guitars, CV gate (which the Kronos can't), DAW software to create full tracks and use plug ins, the ability to constantly expand new sounds and key group instruments, Akai constantly updates their programs to include amps,eq's,synth engines etc. etc.

It's taken over the space that used to be occupied by the workstation keyboard in the studios of younger artists leaving even less of a reason to buy a workstation keyboard.

So what I'm saying is that if Korg plans on carrying the flag into the future they're going to have to start keeping up with what younger artists want and start making these keyboards to match the technology of the times. This old remove half your keyboard to install a hard drive isn't cutting it. This isn't the late 90's ffs Korg.
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