Korg Forums

pax-eterna.1 · Senior Member Joined: 03 May 2017 Posts: 393

A while back I posted about which one of these to buy for the PA5x, and I ended up buying both.

Thought I would write a review of both, so I am "bookmarking" here to say reviews are coming Smile

***********MAJOR DISCLAIMER**************

The information provided below is STRICTLY my own thoughts on these products. As such, I will not enter into any discussion with developers. I have tried to be as objective as I can using them for my purposes. The comments are not intended nor are they a precise and detailed technical discourse (for technical information please direct questions to the developers.)
The packages were installed following precisely the directions from the developers.

Other user experience may vary and indeed maybe different to mine. Again, I will not be entering into any discourse or argument regarding personal opinions.

As always with any of these products - buyer beware and none of the information is either a recommendation or discouragement for the purchase of same.

Thanks

Nemydom

PaulgroK · Joined: 10 Nov 2022 Posts: 28 Location: Norway

So, I come straight from Malmö and Globalsound Studio. (More on that soon. Smile

) The first time I found Globalsound's sound package for pa4x it was like entering a whole new world! I have since had professional meetings online with Timur several times. We have discussed digital drums, and the use of digital sound sources for the production of "Live" music. Johann Sebastian Bach already said in the 18th century, "Never repeat a theme more than 4 times". I use this principle consistently, even though I'm more of a songwriter than a producer. All Globalsound's drums are based on this principle. All the sounds have multiple samples with small variations. These are selected at random, so that you get the experience of a real drummer! In addition, I love the sound quality at Globalsound, and when I use the sounds from my packages "Kharma" and "Platinum" it's like playing a new instrument. Timur at Globalsound puts his soul into making every little sound as good as possible, and I: I enjoy every session. Whether I'm just playing for fun, or whether I'm working on a new song idea, theme development. Full of inspiration! When I compare prices of what I have found in the market, in relation to the sound quality and content. After I found Globalsound, I stopped looking for other things. But of course, everyone has their own preference and taste, and that can never be discussed. Look forward to a review also!
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pax-eterna.1 · Senior Member Joined: 03 May 2017 Posts: 393

yes, very soon...just wrapping the first now.

pax-eterna.1 · Senior Member Joined: 03 May 2017 Posts: 393

Okay, first up, Waves Art, as these were purchased first they go first Smile

NOTE: To do these (same for the Global Sounds sets) I restored PA5 to factory condition, then installed the software as instructed, performed a re-boot and then proceeded from there.

Guitars Suite 3

At first glance at the webpage these sets sounded very good, whatever styles were being used (in the online demos) were tidy and seemed to flow, a great incentive to buy.

I bought the Guitars Suite, and the Drums/Bass package. Near $500 AUD, so not cheap, by any means.

To be totally honest, I think the installation and anti-pirating steps are a bit onerous and perhaps a tad heavy handed...made it an awkward set of packages to buy and install.

It is also compulsory to use specific folders, no choice...otherwise you apparently have problems later. Another negative for me.
I like to run my own "filing" system, and this enforced usage did not really suit, but I went along with it as that was the only way.
If a folder was over-written by the Waves art folders, then "tough luck" was the impression I got.
So if you DO buy, ensure you back up those folders and sound locations...I do not know enough about PCM samples on the PA5 to know exactly what happens there.

Antony was reasonably good with support for installation issues tbh, but that should not have been needed had the process been smoother and more transparent.

So that was installation, not a 100% pleasant experience, but ultimately successful.

Now to the playing...

Guitars : these could only really be played via keyboard sets because, (and I am guessing here) to create a stereo image, some guitars were panned left and right using upper one and upper two respectively (or upper 2 and 3). Which of course meant restricting the user upper sound option to just the one upper sound. Was not the case on all of the guitars but on quite a few.

When played as a "sound only", eg tapping the slot on the screen and loading as a standalone sound (from user sound banks) into an upper slot, it was not very good at all. With some not playing at all, or with only certain velocity layers sounding. Could have been OE (operator error) but with the way the package is designed to be run, maybe not. I cannot say for sure. But the developer did advise that these guitars were best played as a keyboard set. In that context the guitars played and sounded quite good.

Personally? I think any sound you buy should be 100% the same whether used in a keyboard set or stand-alone.

[Although, being brutally honest, and I'll allow I may be incorrect, a little niggle at the back of my mind and my ears, caused me to think some were simply "tweaked" factory sounds, rather than fully sampled new sounds. I cannot be sure as I do not have a 'scope to hand, but "side by sides" certainly highlighted a few similarities. I do stress however, that that is not a serious issue as the sounds were okay, just something that (if indeed editing factory data was the case) should have been more explicitly advised on the webpage. IE, that some sounds were edited versions of factory data.]

If you removed one of the (I am guessing mono samples?) to clear an upper slot for a different sound, after needing to, obviously, readjust the panning to centre, the sound then lacked a certain depth. This was only really in the case of the guitar sounds, basses (from the Drums/Bass pack) must have all been mono (or stereo, but saved to a single sound) as there were no similar things going on there.

Now to the actual playing of the guitar sounds....they were very pleasant to play and had good responses to keyboard technique, and reasonably detailed rx efx. Some rx efx were a tiny bit overdone, but good nonetheless. Acoustic and clean electric guitars were the best in a soloing sense, articulate and detailed...the overdrive and distortion guitars not so good in a soloing sense, but decent in an ensemble setting. Although to be fair to the developer, OD and Dist guitars are notoriously difficult to reproduce accurately and realistically. I have not really heard or played one on a synth (in over 25 years) that was 100% spot on in a blind test, acoustics yes, OD's no.

So, bottom line:
Would I recommend these to another buyer, yes probably, albeit depending on the requirement level of the buyer.

Would I buy them again - probably not, unless price was adjusted down, for me, they are too expensive for what there is, and the usability of many sounds in a standalone sense.

Will I use them for gigging or home studio, again, probably not, as apart from pitch bend assigned to after touch on some (of which there are none in the PA 5 factory sounds I could find) the factory sounds more than adequately cover this sound set. Especially at this price point.

Drums and Bass is coming soon....as is the Global Sounds Rhodium sets.

pax-eterna.1 · Senior Member Joined: 03 May 2017 Posts: 393

NOTE: To do these (same for the Global Sounds sets) I restored PA5 to factory condition, then installed the software as instructed, performed a re-boot and then proceeded from there.

Ok now Drums & Bass.

Again, I do need to comment on the level of copy protection, access to downloads and installation, being a bit heavy handed, but that of course is the developers prerogative. I thought it was too much, others may be fine.

So this set at nearly $200AUD, was not cheap (I did buy it in a package with Guitar suite) , but from the website explanation, seemed to make it almost a "no-brainer" to buy.

I was never a huge a fan of the "compressed" nature of Korg PA series drum sampling (albeit they are okay in ensemble usage), I was very keen to try these out. IIRC, Korg released a set of "pure" drums themselves years ago that to this day (I have them somewhere) still stand the test of time. Limited scope of use in modern styles, but they still sound good.
So that was a "sort of" yardstick by which I could judge these. Live uncompressed with live uncompressed. Added to this is I also have Addictive Drums 1/2, Sampleltank Drums and Ezy Drummer on my system, so I have a pretty good idea of what they should sound like.

The other niggle I had (and this applied to Guitars suite as well) the number of sounds I had to "octave adjust" - and the other annoying (to me) changes made by the install was the re-writing of User system settings - reversal of damper pedal settings and lock screen settings. This, in my view, should not be done. These packs should be produced with the "common" system settings being in place. I know of no keys muso for example, who has sustain set for the pedal being up??

So yes, getting back to the sounds, was definitely looking forward to this one for sure.

For installation woes, please read previous review. Was ultimately successful, so all good in the end Smile

DRUMS: hmmm, well I have to admit I was a bit underwhelmed by this set. The kicks did sound a little less compressed than factory but not a lot to my ear, either via cans or the f.o.h. PA (with sub) - don't misunderstand, they were good, but not that good. Cymbals and other percussive sounds seemed to be ok. A couple were a bit thin for my taste, but they were probably purposely done that way to suit the developer??

Further, they seemed to work "out of the box" only with the limited styles in the factory folders...if I used the drum kits in say a pop or other style, there were wrong notes and other things going on. Now that cold be my system, BUT as I wrote, the PA was reset to factory prior to installation and I performed the auto install, which I assume most folks would do. Perhaps a different experience if one "cherry picked" installation, but my impression from the developer was that if I messed with install too much there could be unexpected results (paraphrased)

I am guessing that with individual tweaking one could re-assign the notes.

But again, as I wrote for the Guitars suite, when one buys sets like these they should be 100% compatible with the target instrument "out of the box".

Now, to be fair to the developer, this MAY be caused by Korg factory programming of drum notes in some styles...I would assume the developer utilised the GM standard note numbers. I had no time to go into the kits sets and check tbh. So perhaps no blame there.

There was just the 6 (or maybe seven? I've uninstalled back to factory now to do Global Sounds and cannot recall) kits that came with this set, and the Rock based ones were the best. I must point out the StudioDK Jazz was excellent! Perfect for a jazz combo. And in a few ways was much better than the factory efforts for particular jazz genres. A couple of niggles with other kits where some sounds were too loud, but that is personal preference only. The sounds themselves were good.

I could not really ascertain a huge difference in the kicks and snares compared to factory tbh, when placed into those styles that the kits worked in. To give benefit of the doubt, there may have been, but via a P.A., which is where I use this stuff, I really could not pick it.

Further, I also did not notice a lot of "round robin" drums. Again, they might be there, but it was simply not noticeable to me, or rather, I should say not noticeable enough for me to rate it.

Now I do know that the online demos (like the Guitars Suite) sound pretty good, but my experience on my PA, did not quite get to that standard.

BASS: Umm, my apologies to the developer, but I do not really rate the bass sounds at all. In my experience of playing them with existing styles and songbook data, the factory bass sounds were more than adequate, and indeed, outshone the basses in this pack. Again JUST my opinion on the experience I had. Others may have a better experience. But those discussions are outside the scope of this review.

I have been playing left hand bass on keys for quite a few years now, and I am VERY picky when it comes to bass. For me, these did not "cut the mustard".

Bottom line:

Would I recommend to other buyers,? yes - the drums only. Cannot really recommend the basses.

Would I buy again? probably not. Although let me modify that, by saying yeah probably just the drum kits, and then "tweak em like crazy".

Would I use them in everyday gigging and studio? Apart from one rock kit and the excellent jazz kit, no.

About to do Global Sounds, but it s a massive set and is not only sounds...so please allow a bit of time.

Nemydom · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:22 am Post subject:

First of all, thank you very much pax-eterna.1 for this excellent review!
I always had a gut feeling that something was not quite right with those Wavesart packages. At least they should not cost any significant money, as they are not from a reputable company or so.

I am very lucky that I didn't go ahead, and didn't pay a hundred euro for nothing.
As I already mentioned, I only need drum kits, but I need GOOD drum kits. Which everyone would rate as "much, much better than the original"

I believe you have all your rights to request money back, as what you describe is absolutely unacceptable product. Of cause, the sound quality is very subjective, but based on your description - there is nothing interesting for me in the package.

But, apart from "nothing special" sound quality, there are some terrible issues there.
I will list here what exactly is unacceptable:

AntonySharmman · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:17 am Post subject:

I will provide some info about WavesArt sound development for readers of this topic
(Nemydom abusing comments are totally ignored by me though).

- Like Korg Store and mSD local resources that are protected by Korg , also WavesArt products have a specific software
protection and customers have to follow some specific steps due to install resources else do not bother to deal with , its a rule.

- There is no compulsory to use specific folders or locations , KBD Sets can be loaded anywhere you like or rename them.
The rule in any PaSeries like Pa4X/Pa3X is that Styles/Pad/KBD SET read samples information from specific SOUND positions
so if you delete or move any specific SOUND that above elements use , then they will stop working , crystal clear that all
PaSeries power users are aware since 20 years.
Therefore if you want a custom library that uses external samples to work , you have to load specific User SOUND bank as
designed by developer , and of story , newbies read advanced edit manual to understand Pa5X architecture.
Pa5X Sound library is anymore strictly KBD SET , as Factory ones , you can edit them only if you know of what you're doing.

- Loading Settings is required for WavesArt advanced libraries 'cause there are some #CC AMS that FX and main OSC uses
in order to work controllers like SW , sliders & knobs that end users have no clue !

- Pa5X WavesArt sound libraries were developed in Pa5X and not just transferred from Pa3/4X like other vendors.

- WavesArt in Guitars Suite uses advanced sound development where over than 50 OSC are used for an acoustic instrument
(24 OSC per sound are not enough for our standards) so it's clearly noticed in description that your library is only KBD SET
where 2 or 3 sound timbres will compose the full acoustic instrument will all articulation.
Some single SOUNDs with names are available for Styles or Song tracks but are limited compared to KBD SET development.

- All main guitars samples are custom (300Mb of samples uncompressed).

- Official Demos are played by me with direct output recording , you can easily see of how I use articulation switches and the
overall sound behavior but you have to treat sound as a guitar and not as organ and I did not devoted the required time to make
them listen better as I should , I did them playing randomly in 20 minutes so any skilled player that have studied articulation ,
can make them listen far better of what I did ...

- Drum Kits mapping in Pa5X Factory Styles varies so we followed GM mapping in a few variations.
It's only one natural Studio ambient drum kit and Pa5X do not support Round Robin for custom samples in DKs.
Studio Drums is mainly an add-on for style creators that want a natural ambient Drums for their Styles.

I will never mention about users taste , its an objective matter , WavesArt provides a step forward for power users that can
really use the advantage.

Finally , I want to thank pax-eterna.1 for his review at his learning curve.

Thanks for reading
_________________
Music Conductor - Sound Engineer & Developer - Automotive SMPS/RF R&D - Electronics Engineer
PaSeries Demos - WavesArt.eu - KorgPa.gr <> Facebook

Keyboards : Steinway-D, Kronos X, Pa5X 76, Pa4X 76, Montage M7 , Roland-XV88, Emu3,Emax II,Synclavier II,Yamaha DX Series, ΟΒ-8V

Nemydom · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:56 am Post subject:

Nemydom · Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:29 am Post subject:

pax-eterna.1 · Senior Member Joined: 03 May 2017 Posts: 393

the Global sounds is coming - got three gigs to prep for over coming days, so it may take a bit longer...but it's coming.

Re Antony's response, well...I will not post private email information here, suffice it to say the overwriting of folders (not keyboard sets as Antony wrote) got a different response.

Anyhoo, again all I can do is post my experience with this...oh and fyi to Antony - I've been using the PA series since PA1xPro, which I daresay is probs way before a lot on this forum. That the PA5 series is using a totally different structure is well worth noting.

I had the third one landed in Australia! aside from "formal" naming and placing of 3rd party banks, one could put anything anywhere and it all worked. Assuming it was saved correctly.

Finally, I made no derogatory personal comments in the review, I'd appreciate the same in response.

worth · Platinum Member Joined: 27 Sep 2005 Posts: 1101

Thanks for the honest reviews . 👌

Nemydom · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 6:15 am Post subject:

Nemydom · Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 8:02 am Post subject:

Bescki · Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 10:15 pm Post subject:

I have bought Global Sound and I dont need anything else. I am completed with Global Sound with realistic sounds... more natural and great value for the money...

After a long searching a lot of sets/sounds, I decided for Global Sound and I am happy.

They have a channel on youtube, you can listen to some of their demos...
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2022 = Korg PA5x
2015 = Korg Pa4x 76
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2004 = Korg Pa1x
2000 = Roland Va-7
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