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kwave
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 23
Location: N. California
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 Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:08 am Post subject: brand new Korg Legacy... licensing problems (revised title) |
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Friday afternoon, California.
Enthusiastic customer receives Korg Legacy Collection via FedEx.
Customer unpacks system... MS-20 looks very cool.
Customer installs software... install looks like it goes well.
Customer runs software... and DESCENDS INTO LICENSE HELL.
Lock code (from software)... check.
Authorization code (from CD)... check.
License code (from server)... does not work.
Re-issue code... does not work.
Support... Closed 4 hours ago, at 2PM PST.
(no matter how many musicians there are in the PST it seems...)
At this point if the problem is not solved on Monday, I am shipping this product back.
I purchase 100% of my software. And I have a ZERO TOLERANCE policy towards software companies that think they can control my software through dumb schemes that require many moving parts and are always breaking. This sort of software company usually spends more time on its fear and paranoias vs. spending time making customers happy.
Korg does not offer 24x7 global support. So Korg sold me a product that only has a chance of working during the business hours of Korg support. For me in the US, that is 8AM to 5PM EST, 5 days a week. As Korg did not disclose this to me prior to purchase, Korg committed FRAUD. As Korg did not disclose the licensing system to me prior to purchase, that is another case of FRAUD. If I move my music development tools from one machine to another, I need to re-activate the software, don't I? There is essentially no information about the licensing system used. Does it write to my hard drive and screw it up like many other lock code systems? Why is an honorable company like Korg even using customer-killer stuff like this?
I would like Korg to consider spending more time on good products and less time on fears. If the product doesn't work at all out of the box, then there is no reason to buy it. My dealer is going to send me an airbill and this thing is going back to them.
Having read through many posts of licensing problems from two years ago, it looks like Korg is not spending enough time making sure the software licensing system works for paying customers. And that is where a business starts. With happy paying customers. I hope someone at Korg understands this basic facet of life...
Lastly, Korg must disclose what this current lock code system does to the system. As Intuit found out, using malware-like licensing systems leads to massive problems with paying customers. Korg must respect the customer if Korg wants any respect from the customer.
And now afternoon rolls into evening... and the customer can take the MS-20 off the desk and put it back in the box and ready to go back on Monday.
----
Update: the unit is not completely DOA. If I just close all the licensing windows, the standalone synths seem to work fine. And the sound quality is great. I've already made two new patches for the MS-20. Great job on the sound, Korg! Now fix the licensing!!! 
Last edited by kwave on Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Daz
Retired
Joined: 01 Jan 2002
Posts: 10829
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Mac or PC ? Are you running the software version from the CD that came in the package or have you applied the latest update ? Try installing the updated version from www.korgusernet and activating using that.
Daz. |
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kwave
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 23
Location: N. California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the help.
1. I am trying to install on Windows XP SP2. The machine is a dual Opteron box with 3GB RAM, 3Ware RAID controller, two RAID1 volumes.
2. For the license code, I am cutting and pasting. So unless what I got from Korg has wrong zeroes/ohs, then I believe I am not introducing any errors. |
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cnegrad
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2002
Posts: 1961
Location: N. Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Additionally, shipping it back Monday morning is a bit hasty if you ask me. In my view, the best move you could make would be to call Korg support directly and let them fix the problem. Off the top of my head, I believe the number is (516) 333-USER. Check the website to verify if my memory is correct.
_________________
-cnegrad
Our Jazz CD: The Deanna Jones Orchestra: "Very First Dance"
http://www.deannajones.com
Our Christian CD: Jacob's Journey: "A Feather In His Hand"
http://www.jacobsjourney.com |
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kwave
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 23
Location: N. California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: |
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It is severe, but it is part of the "zero tolerance" policy.
I think it is worthwhile seriously considering how much of a person's time is spent making busted stuff work. How much does this add to the real cost of the product? How many times will the customer be forced to put time and energy into the product later to deal with dumb stuff? What is the opportunity cost of having problems with a product that cannot be resolved outside of limited support hours?
My policy is that a "quick no" saves me time, energy, and grief. Once you go down the path of trying to make a relationship work with a dysfunctional product... the only person that is happy is the vendor and your therapist. |
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cnegrad
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2002
Posts: 1961
Location: N. Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: |
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My response in the other thread.
_________________
-cnegrad
Our Jazz CD: The Deanna Jones Orchestra: "Very First Dance"
http://www.deannajones.com
Our Christian CD: Jacob's Journey: "A Feather In His Hand"
http://www.jacobsjourney.com |
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Daz
Retired
Joined: 01 Jan 2002
Posts: 10829
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| kwave wrote: | Thanks for the help.
1. I am trying to install on Windows XP SP2. The machine is a dual Opteron box with 3GB RAM, 3Ware RAID controller, two RAID1 volumes.
2. For the license code, I am cutting and pasting. So unless what I got from Korg has wrong zeroes/ohs, then I believe I am not introducing any errors. |
Download the latest version from www.korguser.net and then try the licensing/activation again ... let us know how you get on.
Understand your frustration ... lets see if we can get you going ... there's fun to be had with Legacy 
Daz. |
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kwave
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 23
Location: N. California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Download the latest version from www.korguser.net and then try the licensing/activation again ... let us know how you get on.
Understand your frustration ... lets see if we can get you going ... there's fun to be had with Legacy
Daz. |
I had great hopes for the Legacy and have been a big Korg fan in the past. However that is not to say that great hardware companies can all be great software companies. It is a different art form. Do we need to recall Yamaha's great failure with mLan? Now in Korg's defence, this license stuff is not probably something that Korg wrote. But it is something that apparently has been sitting around for two years without being fixed. And that's not something a paying customer will be happy with.
BTW, I did uninstall the software that came on the CD and then re-installed the latest from Korg. It did not make a difference. Same exact error.
With my little experience of the Korg software, it seems that the legacy licensing of the Korg Legacy original edition should have been moved to the current licensing base (SS dongles). At least that way all the KLC stuff would use one licensing mechanism. As it stands, if you purchase the DE "upgrade" from the KLC original edition, you will have activation licensing + dongle licensing. Not pretty and not good really for anyone involved, even Korg. Perhaps Korg is fixing this situation with the upcoming "Analog Edition".
To all those who have replied... let me not forget to say, "Thanks for being at the bar this evening!" |
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Daz
Retired
Joined: 01 Jan 2002
Posts: 10829
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Still no joy ... doh !
The only thing the Korg User site says for this problem is to ensure the time/date are correct on your PC ... I suspect you've probably got that sorted.
Last suggestion from me is to ensure that nothing in your environment is changing during the licensing process, for example don't connect/disconnect any network devices (broadband modem, USB wireless adapter or whatever).
Daz. |
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kwave
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 23
Location: N. California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Daz wrote: | Still no joy ... doh !
The only thing the Korg User site says for this problem is to ensure the time/date are correct on your PC ... I suspect you've probably got that sorted.
Last suggestion from me is to ensure that nothing in your environment is changing during the licensing process, for example don't connect/disconnect any network devices (broadband modem, USB wireless adapter or whatever).
Daz. |
Yeah, I saw that strange note about the time and date. My systems are all synced to the US government's atomic clocks, so I would hope we are okay there. It's probably more accurate than whatever Korg's website is using. Of course, one little time zone difference (or improper conversion to UTC or something like that) and the license code will not work. It may simply be that the webserver needs a reboot or time sync.
Nothing much is changing. I've got DSL that is always on. The website is not very complicated. You put in some information, it gives you some long string back. I try to cut and paste this string into the Korg licensing dialog immediately after I get it and it doesn't take. It will have to wait until Monday so the Korg people can tell me what is going on.
In a strange quirk of fate, I found that if I bail out of the licensing that the standalone Legacy apps seem to work. So I am experiencing some incredible sounds, regardless of licensing or not.
Listening to the various synths... is quite a treat. Spent a couple hours just enjoying the various patches. The quality is excellent. And this is without the DE upgrade. Korg has done a good job on the sound. The graphics are impossible to read on a high-res monitor, though. That needs to be fixed. And there are glitches when playing some of the patches. But overall, very very good. A Mackie C4 would be wonders with the KLC. Or even a Control/C4 combo so you get faders for some of the parameters instead of knobs.
So there is impetus for me to really drive the Korg people on Monday to some sort of solution. For I don't know if these synths will time out today, tomorrow, or what. At least now I know what I'm griping for! |
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kwave
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 23
Location: N. California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: the sound quality is great |
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I must say that after ignoring and closing the licensing, the sound quality is great. In my limited experience, by far the best soft synths that I have used. Maybe there are individually some better ones, but everything about the KLC other than the licensing has impressed me.
No, it is not going back. Even if I have to close the licensing window/app every time I run it... it's worth keeping
I even ordered the KLC DE upgrade for KLC owners.
How's that for a completely bipolar attitude shift ? |
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Daz
Retired
Joined: 01 Jan 2002
Posts: 10829
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: the sound quality is great |
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| kwave wrote: | | How's that for a completely bipolar attitude shift ? |
LOL ... we're creative people ... that's just the way we are
Glad it's working out ... well sort of I took a look around on the Legacy Yahoo group and KVR and couldn't find any more tips on this 'licence invalid' problem.
Daz. |
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jerrythek
Platinum Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002
Posts: 2931
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kwave:
I'm sorry to hear of your problems, and empathize with your frustration. But all is not as bad as you make it out, I assure you.
You have 10 days of use before needing to complete the license authorization. Your documentation that came with the software clearly states that, as does (I believe) the screen that keeps coming up. We do that so you won't be left "hanging" when first installing the software.
We WILL solve your problem with you on Monday, I am confident. That's not some "empty promise from a product manager"...
You have resurrected a thread that is a year and a half old... which should already say something. If our world was so bad then these threads would be constant here and at our other user sites. But all you'll find is a couple of small and solveable "bumps in the road". We have thousands upon thousands of regstered users making music with the Legacy Collection. Nothing is perfect, but things aren't as bad as you're making it out to be.
It is your very real and understandable frustration speaking and I again apologize that you even got to this point. But give us a chance on Monday and let's solve this.
Send an email to support@korgusa.com with your info, including your name and email address used to register and we'll look into the reg database and see what's going on.
For now, enjoy the synths some more and have a nice weekend.
Regards,
Jerry Kovarsky |
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kwave
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 23
Location: N. California
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| jerrythek wrote: | Hi Kwave:
I'm sorry to hear of your problems, and empathize with your frustration. But all is not as bad as you make it out, I assure you. |
This is always subjective. But I was pretty upset that my brand new product did not work and there was no apparent way of making it work over the weekend. Any software licensing system that requires authorization from some remote machine needs to have staff available in case of problems. Korg staff is not even available until the close of business on the West Coast of the USA. That three hour difference is nearly 40% of "business hours", not that music is driven by "business hours".
| Quote: | | You have 10 days of use before needing to complete the license authorization. Your documentation that came with the software clearly states that, as does (I believe) the screen that keeps coming up. We do that so you won't be left "hanging" when first installing the software. |
It is good to know there is a grace period. However, the screen says nothing of the sort. You may wish to run through the installer again. The first dialog is "Korg Legacy Collection Licence Authorization" and you have two buttons, "Licence Authorization" and "Exit".If you go through the "Licence Authorization" path, you eventually get to a screen where you are supposed to put your activation code in. This screen does not accept what the server gave me. On no screen that I encountered did I see anything about the grace period, though.
| Quote: | We WILL solve your problem with you on Monday, I am confident. That's not some "empty promise from a product manager"...
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Well, you HAVE TO now... I ordered the Korg KLC DE upgrade, so YOU ARE ON THE LINE!
| Quote: | | You have resurrected a thread that is a year and a half old... which should already say something. If our world was so bad then these threads would be constant here and at our other user sites. But all you'll find is a couple of small and solveable "bumps in the road". We have thousands upon thousands of regstered users making music with the Legacy Collection. Nothing is perfect, but things aren't as bad as you're making it out to be. |
I'm sure what you are saying is correct. However, from my viewpoint, I had to use Google just to find these forums. The documentation on support that comes with the product is quite lacking. If threads from years ago are still floating around with no apparent resolution, then a new customer's viewpoint is "problems never get fixed". The customer has no idea what the story is for the other customers. Maybe they never found this message forum. Maybe they returned the product. Maybe they called tech support in NY and were given help. For the new customer, it is all speculation, right or wrong.
| Quote: | It is your very real and understandable frustration speaking and I again apologize that you even got to this point. But give us a chance on Monday and let's solve this.
Send an email to support@korgusa.com with your info, including your name and email address used to register and we'll look into the reg database and see what's going on. |
Thank you. I will follow up with all the appropriate details so we can sort this out. I did place an order via the korgusa.com website for the DE upgrade as well. I see that the licensing part of the software is not very good, but that the soft synths themselves are very well implemented and sound great. It is actually the first time I have been highly impressed with a collection of soft synths. So often, soft synths are not well done. So thank you for not being cheap and shrewish when it comes to the quality of these soft synths.
| Quote: | | For now, enjoy the synths some more and have a nice weekend. |
Amen! Thanks for showing up at the bar and we can pick it up from here on Monday. Best, K. |
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cnegrad
Platinum Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2002
Posts: 1961
Location: N. Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:32 am Post subject: |
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kwave,
Please do the right thing and follow up after you speak with Korg. I expect that if they can solve your issue and give you a stable experience, that you will say so here as flamboyantly as you've taken them to task. It's only fair.
_________________
-cnegrad
Our Jazz CD: The Deanna Jones Orchestra: "Very First Dance"
http://www.deannajones.com
Our Christian CD: Jacob's Journey: "A Feather In His Hand"
http://www.jacobsjourney.com |
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