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milkojnr
Full Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2003
Posts: 182
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: Oasys Outputs |
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Hi guys,
Just wondering why Korg still use un-balanced outputs on the Oasys. Don't get me wrong i love my oasys.
But I would of thought Korg would of used balanced outputs by now. |
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beyarecords
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
this is something I would also like an answer to. Is there a technical reason why the inputs on the Oasys are balanced but the outputs not?!
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Beya |
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ski
Independent Sound Designer for Korg
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 496
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my take...
The output of the Oasys is very hot, much hotter than the typical output level of most hardware synths. As such the inherent signal to noise ratio is pretty extreme (a good thing!) especially for an unbalanced signal. This means that there's plenty of signal to drive an unbalanced line without the fear of picking up noise or degrading the signal with any degree of significance under normal circumstances, using decent cables, etc.
The only time you really need to use balanced outputs is if you're making very long cable runs, in which case you'd probably want to use a DI anyway. Still, I think it would be a rare occurance to actually run, say, 50' or 100' cables directly from any instrument onstage (or even in a studio) to the inputs of a console. Aside from the crappiest of venues, most of the time the output of a synth is going to hit a "local" rig mixer, an offstage mixer via DI (for grounding and noise-prevention reasons), or plug into a DI splitter onstage which then goes to front of house, monitors, and the "local" keyboard rig. There are other scenarios of course, but in most of these cases, the Oasys's hot signal on an unbalanced line shouldn't be problematic.
When I was programming the Oasys, the cumulative cable run in my studio was approx. 40 feet (10' to the patchbay, 30' looms). No noise, no problems. If your grounding scheme is good and you're using decent quality cables, the Oasys's hot signal will, in most cases, make the need for true unbalanced outputs a moot point. |
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beyarecords
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Ski,
many thanks for your reply, it is very much appreciated.
Still the fact remains that Korgs adaptation of this design makes no sense to me at all. On all the pro audio equipment I have one has the option of switching betwen +4dBm (balanced) and -2dBm(unbalanced), but not with this monster!
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milkojnr
Full Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2003
Posts: 182
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: |
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I totally agree with beyarecords.
The use of unbalanced outputs doesn't make sense. I can only come up with a cost issue but for the price of this machine I would of thought that would not of been a issue.
At least Korg could of made the Adat option standard on the Oasys if the balanced outputs cost to much?
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Oasys 88, 2 gig ram, EXB-DI and all the current expansions. VIRUS TI Desktop, Protools Horizons and SSL Bundles |
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ski
Independent Sound Designer for Korg
Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 496
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| beyarecords wrote: | Hi Ski,
many thanks for your reply, it is very much appreciated.
Still the fact remains that Korgs adaptation of this design makes no sense to me at all. On all the pro audio equipment I have one has the option of switching betwen +4dBm (balanced) and -2dBm(unbalanced), but not with this monster! |
YVW!
Just to clarify though, +4 and -2 (usually +4 and -10 or -20 here in the US) have to do with electrical level and not whether a signal is balanced or unbalanced. |
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Daz
Retired
Joined: 01 Jan 2002
Posts: 10829
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:06 am Post subject: |
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A shade OT ...
| milkojnr wrote: | | At least Korg could of made the Adat option standard on the Oasys if the balanced outputs cost to much? |
I felt a little put out that I had to buy ADAT as an option after shelling out that much, but only a little. On the flip side I must commend Korg for providing a digital in by default so you can actually sync the thing up to external gear. I have another board that has ADAT outs by default, but you can't sync it to anything else, so I can't use the outputs. Even the low fat M3 has a digital in, good job Korg. I just noticed that the XS only has a S/PDIF out as well. Yamaha you need to join Kurz, Akai and others in the naughty corner.
To me, not allowing external digital sync is far more heinous than not offering balanced outputs.
Daz. |
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beyarecords
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
any new developments with this issue?!
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tonybanks
Full Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 213
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ski wrote: | Here's my take...
The output of the Oasys is very hot, much hotter than the typical output level of most hardware synths.
..........omissis.......
The only time you really need to use balanced outputs is if you're making very long cable runs, in which case you'd probably want to use a DI anyway. Still, I think it would be a rare occurance to actually run, say, 50' or 100' cables directly from any instrument onstage (or even in a studio) to the inputs of a console. Aside from the crappiest of venues, most of the time the output of a synth is going to hit a "local" rig mixer, an offstage mixer via DI (for grounding and noise-prevention reasons), or plug into a DI splitter onstage which then goes to front of house, monitors, and the "local" keyboard rig. There are other scenarios of course, but in most of these cases, the Oasys's hot signal on an unbalanced line shouldn't be problematic.
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I use my O for playing live only.......and yes, I usually find the crappiest mixer/effects/PA equipement and the most variable selection of humanoids who call themselves sound engineers.
Usually the standard connection for the synths is "put it into the DI (usually the crappiest berhinger) and switch the +4 on"
My quote is alwyas ".....ehr.... mr. sound engineer, the oasys has a very hot output, you will probably need to use the pad switch if your mixer has got one".
Of course they do not believe it and.......BOOOOOOOOOOM..... (you know, they're very sure and convinced about keyboards' output, they do not perform the pre-fader level check).
Most of the time they leave the DI box connected, just to make a little bit worse the nice sounds coming out of the Oasys (you know, they "have to do" something).
When I bought it I though about the absence of the XLR output as a minus.
On my Oasys there's something I miss or would like to see improved.
XLR outputs are not the case.
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