Korg Forums

elvisjohndowson

Hi,
I just upgraded my OASYS 76 to OS 1.2.1 and notice that there is some sort of harmonic distortion from the original factory sounds from OS 1.1.1. I tried playing some of the combis and programs that I played with earlier and notice that it sounds somewhat muddy on the lower end and there is a perceptable hiss/aliasing sound on the lower note registers, especially in the C3 note range area.

For example, when I used to play program A114-Mega Mute Guitar, it used to sound clean and punchy. Now is sounds sort of muddy on the lower notes, when I play C3, C3, F3, F3, C4, C4, F3, F3 progression, the sort of progression you find in an old T'Pau song.

I tried playing some of the combis, e.g. A0032-Moster Power Synth and the sound seems to have lost some definition, overall, when compared to how it sounded when I was running OS 1.1.1.

Elvis Dowson

elvisjohndowson · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject:

Just rechecked once, again, A114 Mega Mute Guitar doesn't have the same impact as it used to when I was running OS 1.1.1. It's pretty annoying and I'm just wondering if increasing the voice polyphony or something else is causing the original sounds to lose some punch/sound definition.

Great, I'm really not happy with this and I don't what to say, I would prefer the original punch/sound definition over increased polyphony. But it makes me wonder, if I go back to OS 1.1.1, then I'll have to fully re-format and re-authorize my OASYS. But then I'm faced in a dilema, what do I do about future upgrades? This is really quite fustrating to say the least.

Elvis Dowson

Daz · Retired Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 10829

Maybe you should try rolling back to 1.1.1 and record an audio sample and then do the same in 1.2.1, it would certainly give us something more to chew on in terms of evaluating any differences.

Daz.

elvisjohndowson · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject:

Yeah, Daz, I'm going to do just that. Right now I'm backing up all the work from the OASYS hard disk to an external drive.

I'm going to save a small snipped to hard disk using OS 1.2.1, roll back to OS 1.1.1 and record the original sound and then do a factual comparision.

It sounds different and my initial reaction is I feel that what I am hearing right now is akin to pouring water into milk and diluting it. Aarrgh!

Elvis Dowson

Daz · Retired Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 10829

If you can do two recordings ... one from the analog outputs into another device (computer or HDR) and another using resampling or similar technique to capture the audio directly on the Oasys itself.

If you end up with some 48kHz wave files (not mp3 ... that'll colour this too much) let me know ... would be interested to hear / evaluate and compare with my own Oasys.

I am not being funny when I say that some things like this can be "psycho acoustic" (I've experienced this a lot myself) and it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

Daz.

elvisjohndowson · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject:

Hi Daz,
I just have my OASYS with me right now and a pair of headphones. I am going to re-sample the sound clip to hard disk. I don't have high quality A/D converters with me. I am planning to capture it direct to WAV.

Elvis Dowson

Daz · Retired Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 10829

No problem, that'll do nicely.

Kevin Nolan · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject:

Elvis -

Just a few thoughts.

I'd take a deep breadth if I were you and sleep on it before reformatting and installing older OS's. In general, I find it difficult to believe that the audio differences you perceive are real 'audio synth engine' differences. That's not to say they aren't; but there could be other issues at play here.

If you have found an issue that was not found during develoment/testing that's serious, we will all suffer and that might prompt a Korg bug fix/patch.

But have you looked at every other aspect of the instrument - especially regarding global settings; that might have changed from your own specific setup when the install occurred?

Having to back track is a significant step to have to take, and I'd resist it for the moment till you have more geneally appraised the situation and received more feedback. For example - surely Korg can quickly compare this program on a 1.1 and 1.2 machine and let us all know.

To my ears as a beta tester, nothing changed - that does not mean you have not found a real issue - but if others do not find this issue it might help you in having to take less drastic action.

I'm sure Korg's intention is to have a seamless upgrade process with no affect on what was perviously there - so if you have detected such a significant change - hopefully it will shake Korg up enough for this to never happen again. Either way, it should not have to be up to you to gut your OASYS software immediately.

Kevin.
_________________
Kevin Nolan
KNECT
Email: knolan@knect.ie
WWW: www.knect.ie

MartinHines · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject:

lbartram · Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 35

I agree. Especially if you are using the digital outs. Check that your global settings havent' been changed. I "lost" the EX2 Piano, for example after the upgrade. Also, clock settings (internal vs. external and clock sync rate) could have been reset.

elvisjohndowson · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject:

Anyway, I'm screwed right now. After installing the OS 1.2.1 update, I tried performing a full OS re-install to 1.1.0 and then attempting to re-authorize. It fails completely. I checked the public ID and it is the same as the one I got via email as part of the re-authorization process.

Now I'm attempting a complete re-install after re-formatting the internal hard disk.

I'll take that suggestion for recording the phase to the sequencer and then use that MIDI file as input to the re-sampling to hard disk process, so that you can align the waveforms for some sort of spectral analysis to see if there are any differences between OS 1.1.0, OS 1.1.1 and OS 1.1.2 for program A114.

I'm really pissed off right now. I don't know why I invested all my money on such an unstable system. There is a lot of inconsistent behaviour in the system and I'm not sure all scenarios have been internally tested by Korg.

Here is a small list of glaring oversights:
a. Problems with playback for the CD player
b. Faint burning smell coming out from the hardware unit that exists on some and doesnt on others
c. And the final icing on the cake, something I didn't mention earlier, when I first bought my unit and was in the process of getting a custom flight case built, I transported it, in its original packing thrice in an SUV. When I got back home and decided to upgrade the RAM, before switching it on after I got it back, I opened it up and found a loose screw at the bottom that came off a small PCB just underneath the keypad switches. Apparently, it wasn't screwed on tight and came loose due to the low frequency vibrations caused during transport. I then immediately checked for tightness for the other screws and the one next to it was also loose. Imagine what would have happened to my system had I not transported it and the screw came loose later on after my RAM upgrade. It would have probably shorted something, had I not discovered it earlier. I wrote back to Korg support immediately and notified them of this occurence. Whoever assembled my unit #000934 did a sloppy job of screwing it right.

Elvis Dowson

elvisjohndowson · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject:

elvisjohndowson · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject:

I just finished the re-installation process after a full format of the hard disk and it's working now. I can also confirm that there is a perceptable difference in the audio between the two versions, sort of like a global master effect being enabled uniformly throught the system for both combis and programs. The OS 1.1.0 settings do not have an ambient effect applied globally on the sounds whereas the OS 1.2.1 update has an ambient effect applied globally on the sound. I will upload the two sound snippets on the Karma Labs website for review since I can't do this here.

Elvis Dowson

elvisjohndowson · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject:

Here's a link to the posting at the Karma-labs forum:
http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=42432#post42432

I had problems uploading attachement there, so I decided to upload it via www.yousendit.com. This link will be valid for 7 days only.

Here is a link to a re-sampled audio clip for A114 Mega Mute Guitar after the OS 1.2.1 update.

Filename: A114O121.WAV
http://www.yousendit.com/download/YBbiCAMvbWw%3D

Here is a link to a re-sampled audio clip for A114 Mega Mute Guitar with OS 1.1.0.

Filename: A114O110.WAV
http://www.yousendit.com/download/YBY7tdm8bWw%3D

The file naming convention that I've used is <ProgramBankProgramNumber><OSVersion>.WAV

The immediately percievable difference is the apparent application of a ambient reverb type effect being applied globally throughout the system for all factory combis and programs. I find that the factory sounds played using OS 1.1.0 to be clearer and more punchy than the same sounds played after the OS 1.2.1 update.

Elvis Dowson

elvisjohndowson · Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject:

Feedback anyone?

I didn't bother to re-sample to hard disk using a MIDI file, because when I played back the combis and programs, the differences were readily apparent. It's as if I had a sonic imprint of how my OASYS used to sound earlier and I could immediately get a gut feeling/reaction that something was not right and from my perspective, this little experiment confirms it, alteast to my ears.

I listened to the two wave files once again and I notice that the difference between the OS upgrades is not that readily apparent in the re-sampled WAV files but is readily apparent when playing the OASYS live.

Elvis Dowson