Korg Forums

Sina172 · Platinum Member Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 1194

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Sharp · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject:

I will simply never understand the fascination with Kurzweil for PCM based sounds. Any time I listen to a demo on their webiste, it's like a trip back to the 80's.

The only thing that really stands out is the Piano, but now days you have all sorts of sample libraries and hardware that FAR exceed that sound in detail and quality.

If you want a good piano, buy Pianoteq.

Sharp.

vEddY · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject:

Sharp · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject:

Lorenzo · Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:58 pm Post subject:

hi Sharp, I think I have an answer for you:
Kurzweil sounds appears in many recording out there, from dream theater to pink floyd and many film tracks, so many of us who listen to those bands and music has those sounds in our brains. The kurzweil sound is very particular and if you feel you need those sounds I can assure you that you can't emulate them with soft synth, synth or workstations... so the only way is to have a kurzweil... I think it's just a matter of taste. Anyway, I have tried many keyboards and I own some big ones like motif rack ES, Triton and a virus b... I'm not talking about emulation of sounds here but the audio quality that comes from those instruments and the kurzweil is simply the best over them all due to the fact that you don't have hiss like on the virus, you don't have that damn vibrato on acoustic sounds like on the motif and you don't have bad loops like on the triton samples (listen to some triton sax...). Then consider the "master" capability of the kurzweil and you can see that it's simply perfect as a controller... and last but not least VAST lets you to create or edit sounds in ways that no other OS do.
Regards, Lorenzo
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Sharp · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:07 am Post subject:

Hi Lorenzo.

I don't think anything could make me change my mind. It's very simple for me, I listen to the orchestral demos on the Kurzweil website, and I hear a crap fake sound that's like a throw back to the 80's.

However.... That's where my opinion on how crap Kurzweil are stops. VAST gets my respect and I bow my head and say... freaking cool man.

This just leaves me with two problems.

1: All the real world PCM data is pointless it's so dated do to the very limited ROM.
2: Kurzweil sound designers suck a programming VAST. It's only when I hear some end user programming am I completely blown away.

Compared to an OASYS, they are light years behind with their 32MB Rom, 48note Poly, and so on.... Smile

Regards.
Sharp,

Lorenzo · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:36 am Post subject:

vEddY · Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject:

I think this reply by Sharp belongs to the "Classic" section Smile

And/or to the other thread we started... Smile

That's what we call "taking a time to produce a great answer to a question" Smile

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ClayMan · Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 1

Dear All,

I found this a very interesting thread as I am one of these users who has had a battery of older synths in the stable to use at one time or another. Never-the-less, this thread is titled "PC3 - M3 killer?".
I really appreciate Lorenzo's balanced approach to the whole thing as he seems to have thought out and played out the answers here the best. This thread could probably argued infinitem, but the poster who noted that beauty is in the eyes (ears) of the beholder (listener) probably stated the most pertinent point. It's true that a real comparison between the PC3 and the M3 can't be done until the PC3 graces the public's ears. Still, based on past performance of Kurz K2XX's and what the M3 has shown to present, the following can be stated:

1) Sounds: The M3 has sampling which the PC3 does not. It also has Radias. Radias however is an option. The PC3 has a two compartment VAST setup (the previous K2600/K2661 had three compartment VAST i.e. TMP), advanced KB3, KFM, and the solid hint of VA1 oscillators. I have used a K2000R and an 01/W pro. The 01/W has some hallmark sounds, but the K2000, as old as it was, could blow it away for pure sound capability. Radias is good, but not on a level with VAST and all it's permutations. I know that the way a synth sounds is very subjective, but it seems (and I've even seen this comment in many other threads) that the Kurz is appreciated for it's sounds long after it has been purchased/explored unlike many other keyboards which now seem to exhibit the "flash in the pan/flavor of the moment" syndrome.

2) Programs, Combinations, & Setups: The M3 keeps it's structure of Programs and Combinations intact. It can control 16 internal and/or 16 external instruments (the previous Korg units could only do 8 unless they were sequencing). The Kurz units can only do 8 in a setup and the number of Programs/Combis is much greater in the M3 than the Programs/Setups in the PC3. However, the Setups in the Kurz are capable of much more in terms of live control than in the Korg; especially when considering the solo/mute/layer capabilites of the Kurz. Nothing short of the Ensoniq even comes close.

3) External control/Sequencing/Phrase Triggering: This area seems to go to the M3 since it has KARMA (although KARMA is better for self-gratification, and not used in live work very much), it's KAOSS pad screen, and it's superior phrase-triggering for live work (at least superior to Kurz's "arranger" function in usage/eloquence. The Kurz still has a superior live interface with an option for a nice ribbon controller, and a quad-arpeggiator which would be easier to use in live-performance than KARMA.

4) Lastly, Effects: There is no doubt here. From the standpoint of ease of use, the Korg effects have always had that nod, but from the standpoint of superior sound, KDFX will unequivocally blow Korg's effects out of the water. If the PC3 manages to make a new effects unit (similar in power to the KSP8) easier to program than the KDFX on previous K2XX units, Kurzweil will win this hands down.

I started this reply not to show one of these units as better than the other, but illuminate the obvious differences. It is not as clear-cut as saying the M3 would be better in the studio while the PC3 would be better in a live situation though there is maybe a little truth to that. Still, if you survey the most prolific 200 big time, live stage players out there, (and I'm not talking about those who are paid to use a certain product), you will find that the Kurzweils are the platform of choice. Beyond all this (sorry if I'm a little windy), you decide. I like both companies, they both make great products (for the most part), but if it boils down to one, I HAVE DECIDED.

Cheers,

ClayMan

jaedeal · Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 2

I endorse Korg so I'll just say "I have a friend that loves Kurzweils !"

Lorenzo · Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:25 am Post subject:

vEddY · Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:09 am Post subject:

keego · Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:12 pm Post subject:

I have had quite a few korgs N364.Trinity, Triton and still have my TS. I was considering (and still am) of upgrading to an M3 (OASYS out of my price range). I recentley bought a used K2500 with ROMS and have to say that the sounds are the best I have heard. Now I am thinking K2600 or PC3X instead of M3.

If only we had Kurz sounds with Korg Touchscreen interface. Now that would be a dream Wink

Megakazbek · Junior Member Joined: 04 Oct 2007 Posts: 92

Lorenzo · Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:19 am Post subject:

please link us where you found those news refered to vast on the pc3, cos I read everywhere that VAST will be limited on that machine, and not expanded.
Regards, Lorenzo
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